RIP Joseph Robert Wilcox

[Renegade]

Wilcox told his companion that he was going to intercede and that was his fatal, final mistake.

Yep, Tuco Rule, when you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

 

[ROGER4314]

As long as we're discussing this seriously, let's add some more options that a CHL holder CAN do. It's not our purpose to bash Wilcox. Let's learn as one of us may be next on the line where we must act.

Wilcox could have taken cover, called the cops on his cell phone and kept the subjects under observation. His call could have been valuable to cops who were rushing to the scene of the police shootings nearby.

Worst case, he could have opened fire from cover and pinned down the subjects until help arrived. He could have assisted others to get the hell out of the store or run to get help.

These things aren't cowardly....they are smart and within the realm of a CHL holder's responsibilities!

Flash

 

[matefrio]

I think we should start a new thread so if is loved ones come to this we don't seem disrespectful.

 

[Savage805]

I think we should start a new thread so if is loved ones come to this we don't seem disrespectful.

+1

 

[ROGER4314]

No disrespect is intended to Wilcox. He made a choice and it turned out badly. He is a courageous man.....but dead. My intent is to deal with the same stuff and go home alive! I wish that for all of you, too! So what's wrong with discussing it? There is a lot to be learned here.

Flash

 

[ROGER4314]

After two of my friends were murdered within 12 months of each other, I asked Keith's dad and Blake's grannie if I could share the stories of how they died with others. Both gave a thumbs up! I posted those stories here and elsewhere, we dissected the actions of all concerned and maybe, just maybe, that saved some lives! That is why we discuss the details of the tragedies. If we do not learn from the mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them.

Flash

 

[Glockster69]

When he got to me, I hit him as hard as I could and knocked him onto the hood of a car traveling down the aisle. I slowed him up enough for the WW guys to catch him. The end result? The bastards never even said "Thank you!" That's my last hero move!

After reading your 1st post in this thread ...

After two of my friends were murdered within 12 months of each other, I asked Keith's dad and Blake's grannie if I could share the stories of how they died with others. Both gave a thumbs up! I posted those stories here and elsewhere, we dissected the actions of all concerned and maybe, just maybe, that saved some lives! That is why we discuss the details of the tragedies. If we do not learn from the mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them.

.... I thought you were done learning.

I wonder if you'd have a different attitude if "they" had said thank you.

 

[Texastransplant]

TexasRN nailed it. I am really happy to see most of he comments here in support. None of us know know we will react until it happens. I'd like to think I would do what I could to protect my loved ones, to if in anyway help a situation come to a happy ending. He died a hero, I can't second guess him. I also know he did what many a leo will not do, confront someone without backup. Maybe right, maybe wrong but he did something and in my opinion he stopped the toll from being worse. See if you go back to most of these situations and just as today in the school shooting in Oregon these evil folks don't want to be killed. When confronted, 9 times out of 10 they kill themselves. Even today I heard in the school shooting of kids hiding for 30 45 mins before a police officer came to help them safely get out. The only way is confrontation; you can have 100 officers and swat come and make plans as to how to take the suspect down, meanwhile others die.

 

[JColumbus]

I do not think I would call his actions heroic, more stupid.

His Situational Awareness was near zero. His tactics non-existent. He did almost nothing, except get shot. He got ZERO shots off. He did nothing to slow down or prevent the events from unfolding.

The dead cops families will get lifetime pensions, college funds, and the like. Wilcox family will get nothing, except bills.

Perhaps he made mistakes, BUT HE ACTED, SELFISHLY. He could have ran, as Flash suggests we all do. Save his own ass. But he ACTED.

We all wish we can go back and correct mistakes in almost every situation worth thinking about. Fact is, it's easier to sit around and come up with, and point out mistakes, than it is to act. He may have gotten himself killed, but while he was getting murdered, it created an opportunity for others to be alerted to the situation, and take ACTION.

Perhaps someone took cover being a clothing rack. Perhaps someone froze in shock. I can come up with this crap all day, that is for certain. I'm not so certain I would act in the interest of other's lives, when I have the opportunity to save mine. I sure hope I would. And if I did, I sure hope my wife wouldn't have to read some silly stuff, like how I messed up BIG TIME, and how dumb this and stupid that...

Renegade. You're much better than that. I mean that sincerely, not as an insult.

 

[JColumbus]

The dead cops families will get lifetime pensions, college funds, and the like. Wilcox family will get nothing, except bills.

Well maybe you and I can help.

Joe Wilcox - A Hero's Memorial Fund by Chuck Bartowski - GoFundMe

I previously stated that I haven't donated to something in a few months. This was a good place for my broke ass to break that cycle. Put your money where your philosophy is. God bless.

To donate to the officers.

Help Las Vegas Cops - Home

 

[Renegade]

Renegade. You're much better than that. I mean that sincerely, not as an insult.

No insult taken, and I was not trying to insult Wilcox. I want folks to live. Folks on this forum. This is now the 4th CHL I know of to get killed needlessly, for basically the same reasons. I want folks here to read, and think, have a plan.

Just because you have a gun does not mean you are a gunfighter. People need to act according to their skill level. They have to be honest with their skill level. Getting killed needlessly is just plain dumb. Putting others at risk is dumb.

If I am in a place and a badguy is NOT shooting anyone, but telling them to leave, I am not going to do anything to stop folks from leaving ASAP. I am really puzzled why he intervened when the badguy was ordering everyone out of the store. Let that play out as long as it is working.

I would love to know if there were other CHLS there (WalMart on Sunday afternoon, I would expect several. I would love to know what they saw that caused them not to act.

 

[breakingcontact]

Im not looking to die soon. But if I die while preventing other innocent people from dying that sure beats the hell out of cancer.

RIP to the cops just doing their jobs and the brave guy who ended this madness.

 

[ROGER4314]

.... I thought you were done learning.

I'm old, eyesight is going south and I couldn't out run an 80 year old hooker. If they'll stand and fight, I'll rip their arms off but it doesn't work that way.

Reminds me of old George in Tulsa. There was a bar across the street from our job so we'd go over there after work. It was a rough assed place and several people were killed there over the years. George got into a piss fight with some stranger, pulled out a pen knife that had a 1" blade on it and said "Are you with me, guys?" WTF!

I've lived through a great many bar fights but going into a mess with a 1" knife is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen! That's how I feel about my CHL pistol. It's not for armed assaults. It's a hail Mary.....nothing more. On top of that, the bastard is going to need to catch me first!

Flash

 

[JColumbus]

.... I thought you were done learning.

I'm old, eyesight is going south and I couldn't out run an 80 year old hooker.

Flash

Don't be disrespectful. What do you expect out of a hooker, when you think she's homeless and give her a few bucks? It's gonna chase you down so she/he can perform the service you paid for. I call that HONESTY.

Seriously though; my brother in law just lost a close friend today, when he got in a fight, and the other guys stabbed him to death. Disgusts me.

BUT! I like to think, if I were there, I wouldn't have ran and called the cops. I'd had shot those pieces of...

He'd had been dead by the time the police showed up, regardless.

I DO feel an obligation to help a fellow man in immediate need, ESPECIALLY, if their life depends on it. If I ever failed to TRY and save someone's life, when I could have done SOMETHING to avert the loss of it, I would find it a lot harder to live with mine.

Ah, reminds me of this time I saw a black guy stomping some younger black lady's head into the sidewalk, at an intersection. Luckily I wasn't driving, so I got out and chased him through an apartment complex until he went in one. I walked back to the young lady and called 911.

In retrospect, maybe I should have just attended to the girl when he ran off and just called the cops and gave a description. As soon as he ran, she was no longer in danger and I didn't need to chase him. But I'm glad I did something.

If my running to her aid had resulted in me getting stabbed, do you think it would have been stupid of me? QUESTION GOES FOR RENEGADE AS WELL.

The way I see it, she could have had severe head and brain injuries, far worse than whatever she ended up with, by the time the cops arrived.

Makes me think, if the couple had killed themselves at the sight of Mr. Wilcox's gun, and he survived, maybe you two would have a different perspective. But his death may show that he made mistakes, and it seems that the presence of mistakes has you thinking, "he made mistakes, therefore getting involved was wrong", instead of, "he helped some people, but made mistakes that got him killed".

Not saying I'm right. This is just my thinking.

 

[JColumbus]

No insult taken, and I was not trying to insult Wilcox. I want folks to live. Folks on this forum. This is now the 4th CHL I know of to get killed needlessly, for basically the same reasons. I want folks here to read, and think, have a plan.

Just because you have a gun does not mean you are a gunfighter. People need to act according to their skill level. They have to be honest with their skill level. Getting killed needlessly is just plain dumb. Putting others at risk is dumb.

If I am in a place and a badguy is NOT shooting anyone, but telling them to leave, I am not going to do anything to stop folks from leaving ASAP. I am really puzzled why he intervened when the badguy was ordering everyone out of the store. Let that play out as long as it is working.

I would love to know if there were other CHLS there (WalMart on Sunday afternoon, I would expect several. I would love to know what they saw that caused them not to act.

I didn't see your post as a direct insult, but more like a straight forward opinion that is, in my opinion, indirectly insulting.

That goes without saying (gunfighter thing), but I can't see why a guy, who has never thrown a punch in his life, should not try and stop another guy from bashing his girlfriends face in, because he has no skills in fighting. You may have seen the "prayers for my uncle" thread. He was stabbed a couple of weeks ago. He lived. But the reason he was stabbed, was because his girlfriends ex was stabbing her in the chest. If he had ran and called the cops, she'd be dead. Luckily, he stopped him, though he was stabbed in the chest as well, and fought him off. They both lived. He has absolutely NO knife fighting skills.

Those people in Walmart were already at risk. It's hard for me to disagree that, if everyone leaving was working, he should have let it work. Maybe it would have gone smoothly. Maybe not. I would love to know what the CHL saw/felt, that made him act. Lots of maybes that I don't think we'll ever get answers to.

Till we do; Two idiots killed two cops, then went to Walmart with those guns and were an immediate threat to people's lives. One man acted in the face of imminent danger. He died, but everyone else lived. I don't see how the facts dictate that he did the wrong thing.

 

[ChrisX]

No insult taken, and I was not trying to insult Wilcox. I want folks to live. Folks on this forum. This is now the 4th CHL I know of to get killed needlessly, for basically the same reasons. I want folks here to read, and think, have a plan.

Just because you have a gun does not mean you are a gunfighter. People need to act according to their skill level. They have to be honest with their skill level. Getting killed needlessly is just plain dumb. Putting others at risk is dumb.

If I am in a place and a badguy is NOT shooting anyone, but telling them to leave, I am not going to do anything to stop folks from leaving ASAP. I am really puzzled why he intervened when the badguy was ordering everyone out of the store. Let that play out as long as it is working.

I would love to know if there were other CHLS there (WalMart on Sunday afternoon, I would expect several. I would love to know what they saw that caused them not to act.

i have to to agree with you. Without knowing this guy's level of experience or training it's hard to know whether he made a good decision or not. It sounds at the very least that he made a tactical error in not confronting the shooter from cover and not being aware of his surroundings as well as not reading the guy's intentions well. Someone that is ordering everyone out when he could be shooting them instead... it would seem evident he had different intentions than killing the people inside. Either way, a tragic event. RIP

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Rip hero

 

[ROGER4314]

Let's mention this for all the folks who love to WATCH fights..............
Long ago when I was married, my BIL was standing by a parked car watching two knot heads fighting. A guy he didn't know opened the car door and as he got out of the car, stabbed my BIL in the ribs. Luckily, he stabbed from a low position and upward so instead of the blade piercing his lungs & heart, it came up into his armpit. He survived.

Also for the viewers of street fights...........
If one of the combatants draws a gun and fires, that bullet is going to hit SOMETHING. If you're gathered around the fight, the victim may be YOU!

If you see a fight.........get the Hell gone! Read about it in the news the next day.

Flash