Rolling Over

[RatBikeRod]

So, I have a question; At what point did we as a society just roll over and decide that we were ok with paying a kings randsome for insurance and medical care?

I would say that it was a case of a frog in a boiling pot, but the problem is that Obamacare just dropped us straight into the fire...and we don’t seem to care.

$3-6,000 deductible - OK
$800 a month for a family of 3 - oh, ok
$400 prescription (cause I am healthy and did not make my deductible) - you bet!
$3500 emergency room visit ... for a bad rash - Thanks doc, here is a blank check.

My daughter is in a study abroad program right now. The first week she became quite ill with food positioning. Required her to go to the emergency room where she is. Was put on an IV and given 5 different meds. Know what it cost her?

$60!

I am trying to figure out if we have all just given up? You would think that this crap would have us rioting in the streets, since boycotting the DR office or insurance companies just leaves us sick or dead.

I really do not get the perceived apathy.

What am I missing?

 

[Younggun]

Depending on where she is abroad, her medical care was likely offset by outrageous taxes levied against the citizens of the country she was visiting. But you didn't give enough info to speculate further.

When did we roll over on O'care? Oh, I don't know. One of Trumps big campaign points was repealing it. Has also been an unfulfilled campaign promise of many Rs who've run for election/reelection since it's passing. Plenty of people vocally unhappy with their rates increasing. I wouldn't say they're happy about it or haven't noticed.

Aside from that, I'd say it depends on the type of insurance you buy and it's intended use. If you want super cheap doctor visits you probably pay a lot. If you put away money for emergency and only need catastrophic coverage (you are fairly responsible) you probably aren't getting hit nearly as hard.

Or there are those who use doctors that aren't in the insurance game. They pay out of pocket, get much lower pricing, and don't pay $6,000+ per year for insurance.

 

[benenglish]

$400 prescription (cause I am healthy and did not make my deductible) - you bet!

I stood behind a couple and their son at my local CVS pharmacy last year. The bag of medicine that the son (apparently desperately) needed was $17,000.

I have no idea what was in that small paper bag. The parents started talking about how their insurance covered it and the pharmacy tech explained that the price included the insurance. Without insurance, that little paper bag would have cost $29,000.

Mom was fighting tears. Dad was on the phone, red-faced, desperately trying to reach someone at some office without success. They left fairly quickly after asking the pharmacy to hold onto the meds while they figured out what was happening.

I've spent most of my life caring for family members who are really, really sick. In my experience and by my observation, healthcare in the U.S., if you're actually sick, is totally FUBAR.

 

[Texasjack]

People "rolled over" on Obamacare because they believed that they were going to get something for free.

It is impossible to add together the cost of healthcare PLUS the cost of a huge government bureaucracy and wind up with a LOWER cost.

The government could do a lot to reduce those costs, but that would mean many millions of dollars that their attorney buddies wouldn't be collecting. The Crust ALWAYS takes care of The Crust. This is how Congress Slugs can become multi-millionaires after a few years of making $175K. We have people that have been in Congress since before the internet existed. They don't stay in office because they're doing a great job of taking care of the country; they stay because they're doing a great job of taking care of their buddies.

If you want REAL reductions in health care costs, you need a LOT LESS GOVERNMENT.

If you want (fake) cheap healthcare cost like Europe, then we need to significantly raise taxes and let the socialists run the government. Mind you, private ownership of firearms is NOT compatible with socialism. With socialism, you just accept that The Crust gets to rule everyone in exchange for letting you eat and get hospital care. It's a system that works well in an ant hill. I prefer not to be an insect.

 

[RatBikeRod]

Granted the tax issue in European countries is the flip side of that coin.

But, here is my point; 4 years ago, cost were manageable for most of us. Now, even if you make good money (maybe more so if you do) it has become almost untenable. Like Ben noted, when a family gets a small bag of drugs (hell, gets a grocery bag full) and it cost $17k... something is desperately wrong.

People are going without now because of this. How is that better.

The country needs an enema!

 

[Younggun]

I really don't know where the straw man who rolled over on O'care is. It seems we are to answer for a situation I haven't seen.

I also don't see how anyone could answer for the situation Ben described when we have no idea what was in the bag, what was wrong with the kid, or what the final outcome was.

TBH, I'm almost getting the impression that you are arguing for a universal tax based single payer system.

 

[RatBikeRod]

No, I think I am arguing more than anything else going back to where we were before O’care. I see nothing this has corrected and only negative financial impact for much of the nation.

A recent article stated that even with insurance that many Americans cannot afford medical care.

 

[Charlie Primero]

You would think that this crap would have us rioting in the streets,

True, but The System built carefully constructed safeguards against that.

Free Market Competition would slash health care prices in a matter of months. Big Corporations HATE free markets, and work diligently with the DEA, FDA, American Medical Association, and State Government agencies like the Texas Medical Board to ensure free market competition cannot occur.

When I was in jail as a kid, any boy who did not fight to the death to avoid being raped by the 17 year-olds was considered consenting, and thus deserving of butt rape.

Failure to break unjust laws in order to fight high medical prices is effectively Consent.

 

[Younggun]

Oh boy...

 

[AustinN4]

TMI

 

[Lunyfringe]

TBH, I'm almost getting the impression that you are arguing for a universal tax based single payer system.

This is what our current system is designed to do... it's not meant to help you or me, it was designed by an ivy-league leftist (who was paid a lot by other leftists) to create a situation where single payer seems like a better option.
They wanted single payer right away, but figured that would cause civil unrest... so they bide their time and play the long game, all the while lying to the public.

 

[easy rider]

Insurance was never really about taking care of the general public, it's about making money for the company. Insurance companies have some of the biggest lobbyists in D.C. and many politicians are in their pockets. Also, when you go to the hospital you are not just paying for yourself, you are paying for those that don't pay at inflated prices. Obamacare wasn't really put to a public vote, and with so many politicians in the insurance, medical and pharmaceutical lobbyists pockets you can see where that went.

 

[oldag]

Lack of competition will always drive prices up. Obamacare cut competition significantly (some areas are down to only one insurer).

I never advocate using the European system for a model. Extremely high taxes, mostly government run.

Quality of care is generally not as good. Long waits for some critical tests/operations. Government may decide they think you are not worth the expense.

This is why people from all over the world come to the Medical Center (or Mayo, etc.) for care. The best care available is here in the U.S.

Going single payer would reduce doctor's incomes. The best and brightest would be less likely to go into med school. Not only would care suffer, but so would medical innovation.

Our system is not perfect, but I will still take it over anything else. We just need to get the government out of the equation and let competition recover.

 

[Younggun]

Insurance was never really about taking care of the general public, it's about making money for the company.

This is true. However, too many people see this as some great injustice. Name a company that isn't out to make a profit.

Issues on the consumer side of insurance often stem from the idea that you should get as much money from insurance as you pay in to it. Completely incorrect from any business or economic standpoint.

Insurance companies have some of the biggest lobbyists in D.C. and many politicians are in their pockets.

This is a problem that is applicable to almost any issue taken up by polititions. I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Also, when you go to the hospital you are not just paying for yourself, you are paying for those that don't pay at inflated prices.

You are paying for everyone who doesn't pay a dime and covering the losses. You are also paying for the employees hired to navigate the mess of paperwork created by our current reliance on insurance. You insurance rates are higher to cover the increased prices as well as those who pay very little for coverage and draw large amounts from the pool.

Obamacare wasn't really put to a public vote,

Very little is due to our system of government. Direct democracy tend to eat itself pretty quickly.

and with so many politicians in the insurance, medical and pharmaceutical lobbyists pockets you can see where that went.

True. I'm not sure the alternative of a public vote as a standard for law would result in a positive overall national outcome either though.

 

[easy rider]

True. I'm not sure the alternative of a public vote as a standard for law would result in a positive overall national outcome either though.

Correct, The swamp may get drained some, but I am positive it will never truly be drained. The game of politics and personal gain is the reason there are politicians.

 

[MTA]

Correct, The swamp may get drained some, but I am positive it will never truly be drained. The game of politics and personal gain is the reason there are politicians.

Edited: Hopefully the refugees bring flowers and rainbows to our politicians in D.C.

 

[AustinN4]

Deleted

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Maybe the post and quote should be taken care of.

 

[AustinN4]

Maybe the post and quote should be taken care of.

I'll delete my whole post if it is.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Should be mods call, just a suggestion.