Ruger AR15 BCG's are hot garbage

[Laufer]

That's unfortunate about some.

My brother's standard Ruger AR has had zero issue(s), and was nib about two years ago.

 

[Gordo]

While i consider Rugers AR's to be extremely substandard, by far the single worst component on them is their bolt carrier group.

I have seen so far 7 different Ruger AR's exhibit the same issue where a gas ring partially jumps the slot, and wedges the bolt partially out of battery over the past few years.

Have you taken any measurements on what the issue is?
Several things could be going on here.
Bore in the carrier too large.
Diameter of the bolt where the snap rings go (yes, those are snap rings, not piston rings).
Possibly the rings too soft.

Have you tried a McFarland style ring? (the spiral, one piece type)?
That is the only type of ring I will put on an AR bolt, there are no thin spots around the circumference.

 

[zackmars]

Have you taken any measurements on what the issue is?
Several things could be going on here.
Bore in the carrier too large.
Diameter of the bolt where the snap rings go (yes, those are snap rings, not piston rings).
Possibly the rings too soft.

Have you tried a McFarland style ring? (the spiral, one piece type)?
That is the only type of ring I will put on an AR bolt, there are no thin spots around the circumference.

They are piston rings. The standard ar15 has an internal gas piston formed by the tail of the bolt, and the internal bore of the carrier. Gas flows into this chamber and expands, pushing the bolt forward, which kicks the BCG back.

The AR15 is not DI. A DI gun feeds gas into a blind hole, like a mas 49, a ljungman 42 and its derivatives. (We all say DI in relation to the AR because not only is it convenient, it gets old hearing me harp on and on about how it's actually a piston)

When the bolt is in the carrier, the rings are compressed, the rings are split to allow for removal/installation, to take up the freebore of the carrier, and to add redundancy, since an AR can run with only one gas ring if needed.

Ruger BCG's have killed tons of my spare gas rings, these were rings from Colt, BCM, and springco.

Mcfarland rings are not needed. If your BCG is so out of whack it eats gas rings, a one piece ring won't fix anything. And if your BCG is fine with standard rings, you have reduced the redundancy built into the design. Even guns that are harder on gas rings, like the Mk18 do not have a known lifespan on the gas rings

 

[TexMex247]

I had a cheap bcg that didn't go to full lock up on a recent build. Bought a decent Carpenter bolt and it ran great after. After building several with barrels from BA, Rosco, PSA and Faxon, only the Faxons and Roscos ran right out of the box. The others had undersized gas ports that needed some oversizing. The BA one really chapped my hide, high expectations and barely a 1.25 MOA rifle. I'm hoping as the round count increases it tightens up.

None of them come close to the WOAs I have. Since I reload, I know the ammo is not a factor. But when I'm testing for accuracy other than SMKs and other HP handloads, the best factory ammo I've ever found was older generation swiss made Winchester 62gr OTM. That stuff is my proving round for every gun. Wish I had cases of it.

 

[Gordo]

@zackmars

They are snap rings, just look at the profile, they are just missing the holes for snap ring pliers.
Every time they fail, it is at the thin part of the profile.
If that wasn't there, the failure rate would go way down.
McFarland rings don't have that thin point, and they never fail.
If the wana-be piston rings didn't have those 2 thin points, they would be piston rings, and wouldn't be failing at the rate they do.
The reason for Armalite/Colt/ everyone else still use this crap is understandable if you read my signature.

 

[zackmars]

@zackmars

They are snap rings, just look at the profile, they are just missing the holes for snap ring pliers.
Every time they fail, it is at the thin part of the profile.
If that wasn't there, the failure rate would go way down.
McFarland rings don't have that thin point, and they never fail.
If the wana-be piston rings didn't have those 2 thin points, they would be piston rings, and wouldn't be failing at the rate they do.
The reason for Armalite/Colt/ everyone else still use this crap is understandable if you read my signature.

Do you know what snap rings do? They aren't used to contain gas by themselves.

I've seen more than a few of the one piece rings fail due to being drastically undersized, or unraveling in the bore because an end got caught.

Fail at the rate they do? Explain. Because gas rings do not have a set life span. This is from the guys who know how many hundreds of thousands of rounds an upper cab shoot before it dies, how many tens of thousands of rounds a Geissele SSF trigger can go before it breaks. What evidence do you have that a system that is over 60 years old, and has been proven in combat more times than any other rifle in American history is flawed?

The whole "your rifle was made by the lowest bidder" is funny. Because while there is a tiny shred of truth, it's nearly totally false. When's the last time you saw the military running around with Anderson/radical builds? I heard from a guy in a gun shop that SOCOM issues bear creek side chargers. Was that you?

Why am i not seeing the military procuring vortex crossfires instead of Trijicon VCOGs? Why an i not seeing cheap amazon red dots instead of Aimpoints?

Yes the low bidder gets the contract, only if they are able to meet the specifications of the contract. It's dishonest to try to paint this as evidence of quality.

 

[Gordo]

LoL!

 

[candcallen]

And I can write my name in piss on a wall prettier than all you bastards.

 

[zackmars]

And I can write my name in piss on a wall prettier than all you bastards.

Yeah? Well my urine is red, so take that!

 

[Gordo]

I'm 70, and can do that,
but I would have to use my writing instrument like a crayon by rubbing it on what ever I was tagging,
and probably would end up with road rash, that would be a bit difficult to explain to a doctor...

"Well, you see Doc, we were having a discussion about internal snap rings, and..."

 

[leVieux]

While i consider Rugers AR's to be extremely substandard, by far the single worst component on them is their bolt carrier group.

I have seen so far 7 different Ruger AR's exhibit the same issue where a gas ring partially jumps the slot, and wedges the bolt partially out of battery over the past few years.

Fixing the problem involves pulling back the CH till the bolt locks about halfway back, separating the upper and lower until you can get a screw driver in the forward assist scallops, and driving it forward with a hammer till you can use the FA itself. Once it is in battery, you can fully remove the lower. Unlock the charging handle, have the upper in a vise (or have a buddy) hold it upside down, and stick a thick screwdriver against the back portion of the BCG, and hit it with a hammer. Hard.


With the carrier out, you should be able to remove the cotter pin and firing pin just fine. You will need to beat the bolt into its locked position by placing the BCG vertically and hitting it hard with a hammer. When that is done, you'll need to rotate the cam pin 90°. I've found a pair of needle nose pliers work the best. You'll then need to pull the cam pin out. Any slip joint pliers work well. You can then use a .30 caliber ram rod in the backside of the carrier to pop the bolt out. This beats up on ruger's cam pin pretty hard, and I would recommend replacing this part.

Typically it's only one of the 3 rings that has jumped, the other 2 are usually fine. Replacing all 3 rings will not solve the issue. Fortunately the AR really only needs one ring, so removing one of the rings will at least get you an extra mag or two of shooting if you really need it.

I believe 1 (or multiple) of 3 things are happening. Ruger's bolts are undersized, the carrier's bore is oversized, or the slot the rings sit in is too shallow.

The only real fix is to buy a higher quality BCG, Colt, BCM, DD, RRA, PSA, hell, even Anderson. These BCG's are also far easier to disassemble since the cut out for the cotter pin is properly shaped, unlike ruger who just cuts a flat spot.

You can always contact ruger for a new one, but it'll be a similar BCG to what you already have, from the same production line, with the same (at best) batch QC checks.

I'll see if I can add some pics later, but damn ruger. It's an AR BCG. The only thing that's easier to make is an A2 pistol grip.

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Thanks for posting these details. Although long associated with AR’s, from the US Army days of “Stoners” adaptation, my knowledge is very superficial. I’ve owned a BushMaster AR15 20+ years, but doubt if 200 rounds fired.

Could you say if this problem also affects the new .308 Ruger AR ? I was looking to buy a new one.

Thanks again, leVieux

 

[zackmars]

<>

Thanks for posting these details. Although long associated with AR’s, from the US Army days of “Stoners” adaptation, my knowledge is very superficial. I’ve owned a BushMaster AR15 20+ years, but doubt if 200 rounds fired.

Could you say if this problem also affects the new .308 Ruger AR ? I was looking to buy a new one.

Thanks again, leVieux

The SFAR? I don't like the design of the BCG, but i haven't seen any issues with them so far.

 

[oldag]

<>

Thanks for posting these details. Although long associated with AR’s, from the US Army days of “Stoners” adaptation, my knowledge is very superficial. I’ve owned a BushMaster AR15 20+ years, but doubt if 200 rounds fired.

Could you say if this problem also affects the new .308 Ruger AR ? I was looking to buy a new one.

Thanks again, leVieux

If you check on the Ruger forum there have been some first production issues. I recommend waiting a bit to let them get the bugs worked out.

 

[leVieux]

The SFAR? I don't like the design of the BCG, but i haven't seen any issues with them so far.

<>

Thanks, and please continue with the technical notes, it is interesting.

<>

 

[Sam7sf]

Zackmars loves ruger.

 

[Gordo]

I wonder if he thinks the quality has went up in the past 50 years?

 

[zackmars]

Zackmars loves ruger.

I'll start liking ruger once they figure out why their QC department has disappeared.

 

[Gordo]

Who needs a QC department when everything these days is made on CNC machines?
Just push a button, and you get the finest machine work ever!

 

[zackmars]

Who needs a QC department when everything these days is made on CNC machines?
Just push a button, and you get the finest machine work ever!

Their QC department is filled with people who don't know the difference between snap rings and gas rings.


Probably why their BCG's kill rings so often

 

[Sam7sf]

I'll start liking ruger once they figure out why their QC department has disappeared.

Manufacturers should put on the sn what day of the week a gun was made.

“I’ll pass on the Monday build”.