San Antonio City Parks

[JohnnyLoco]

I think a lot of you know that there is a city ordinance in San Antonio that prohibits the carrying of firearms in city parks. Does anyone know of someone who has been ticketed or arrested carrying at a park in San Antonio? I know the ordinance is preempted or invalidated by state law, but still wondering.

I only ask because I was informed by an SAPD officer at a traffic stop in Brackenridge Park that he could ticket me for violating the ordinance but he decided not to because he "believes in concealed carry."

I kind of thought that the SAPD had a unwritten policy to not enforce that ordinance (like the folding blade ordinance), but had no personal experience until now.

 

[majormadmax]

Here's the code...

TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE
TITLE 7. REGULATION OF LAND USE, STRUCTURES, BUSINESSES, AND RELATED ACTIVITIES
SUBTITLE A. MUNICIPAL REGULATORY AUTHORITY
CHAPTER 229. MISCELLANEOUS REGULATORY AUTHORITY OF MUNICIPALITIES
SUBCHAPTER A. REGULATION OF FIREARMS, KNIVES, AND EXPLOSIVES​

Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS; AIR GUNS; KNIVES; EXPLOSIVES. (a) Notwithstanding any other law, including Section 43.002 of this code and Chapter 251, Agriculture Code, a municipality may not adopt regulations relating to:
(1) the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms, air guns, knives, ammunition, or firearm or air gun supplies; or
(2) the discharge of a firearm or air gun at a sport shooting range.
(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a municipality has under another law to:
(1) require residents or public employees to be armed for personal or national defense, law enforcement, or another lawful purpose;
(2) regulate the discharge of firearms or air guns within the limits of the municipality, other than at a sport shooting range;
(3) regulate the use of property, the location of a business, or uses at a business under the municipality's fire code, zoning ordinance, or land-use regulations as long as the code, ordinance, or regulations are not used to circumvent the intent of Subsection (a) or Subdivision (5) of this subsection;
(4) regulate the use of firearms, air guns, or knives in the case of an insurrection, riot, or natural disaster if the municipality finds the regulations necessary to protect public health and safety;
(5) regulate the storage or transportation of explosives to protect public health and safety, except that 25 pounds or less of black powder for each private residence and 50 pounds or less of black powder for each retail dealer are not subject to regulation;
(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm or air gun by a person other than a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;

Source: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/LG/htm/LG.229.htm

I cannot recall one instance where anyone has been cited for carrying in a San Antonio city park.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Me neither, I just don't know why he would tell me that if it wasn't their practice.

 

[Hoji]

Me neither, I just don't know why he would tell me that if it wasn't their practice.

Because when he is off duty he wears a flat brim ball cap and drives a jacked up diesel brodozer.

 

[randomthought]

I work at a city park and we recently changed our rules on ccw in the park the reason i was given was we cant overide Texas law on carry because we as a park do not meet the educational stipulation to ban carry.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I work at a city park and we recently changed our rules on ccw in the park the reason i was given was we cant overide Texas law on carry because we as a park do not meet the educational stipulation to ban carry.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Pretty much what I thought was happening.

 

[PB&J]

I've been reading here for quite some time, and appreciate all the info you folks have shared.

About this thread: I registered here just to comment on this as it seems a bit different from my memos...or maybe something changed between 2010 and now.

I called 210-207-8590, San Antonio Park Police HQ on the following date/time, and each time was told it was OK to CHL in the city parks. I have the last name of the person I spoke with for 2 of those calls.

31 May 2004 1628
22 Apr 2008 0845
12 Apr 2010 1010

 

[majormadmax]

Here are the current San Antonio ordinances concerning firearms...and yes, some of them are in violation of Texas Government Code §229.001...

ARTICLE VI. - REGULATION OF FIREARMS AND WEAPONS

Sec. 21-151. - Definition of firearm.

As used in this article, the term "firearm" shall mean any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use.

(Ord. No. 79328, § 1, 12-16-93)

Sec. 21-152. - Discharge of firearm.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge a firearm within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that:

(1) The person discharging the firearm was a certified peace officer at the time and the discharge was done in the performance of his duties as such; or

(2) The person discharging the firearm was a certified security guard at the time and the discharge was done in the performance of his duties as such; or

(3) The discharge was justified under the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code; or

(4) The discharge occurred at a firing range or other area designated for target practice.

(Ord. No. 79328, § 2, 12-16-93; Ord. No. 84805, § 1, 9-19-96)

Sec. 21-153. - Carrying a firearm prohibited; exceptions.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a firearm within the city limits of the City of San Antonio at:

(1) A public park; or

(2) A public meeting of a governmental body; or

(3) A political rally, political parade, or official political meeting; or

(4) A nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that:

(1) The firearm is being carried by a certified peace officer; or

(2) The firearm is being carried by a certified security officer in the performance of his employment.

(Ord. No. 79328, § 3, 12-16-93; Ord. No. 84805, § 2, 9-19-96)

Sec. 21-154. - Possession of or access to firearm by person under seventeen years of age.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person seventeen (17) years of age or older to intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence facilitate, suffer, or permit the discharge of a firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17) by allowing that person to obtain unsupervised access to the firearm.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person seventeen (17) years of age or older to intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence facilitate, suffer, or permit the physical possession of a firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17) by allowing that person to obtain unsupervised access to the firearm.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under subsections (a) and (b) that:

(1) The firearm was possessed or discharged at a firing range or an area designated for target practice and was possessed or discharged under the supervision of any person seventeen (17) years of age or older; or

(2) The access to the firearm was obtained as a result of the commission of a crime; or

(3) The possession or discharge of the firearm was justified under the provisions of Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code; or

(4) Reasonable precautions under the attendant circumstances were taken to prevent unsupervised access to the firearm by any person under the age of seventeen (17).

(Ord. No. 79328, § 4, 12-16-93; Ord. No. 84805, § 3, 9-19-96)

Sec. 21-155. - Possession of knife.

It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of seventeen (17) to possess or carry any knife on a public roadway or public right-of-way; on any other property in which a governmental entity has an interest; or on private property without the permission of the owner or the person in control of the property within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.

(Ord. No. 79328, § 5, 12-16-93)

Cross reference— Certain knives prohibited generally; exceptions, § 21-17.
Sec. 21-156. - Possession of firearm restricted.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of seventeen (17) to carry a firearm on a public roadway or public right-of-way; on any other property in which a governmental entity has an interest; or on private property without the permission of the owner or person in control of the property within the city limits of the City of San Antonio.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this provision that: The firearm is being carried at a firing range or an area designated for target practice.

(c) Law enforcement officers authorized to enforce this article are hereby authorized to seize any firearms in the possession of any person under the age of seventeen (17) in the city limits of the City of San Antonio where there is probable cause to believe said firearms are being or will be used in the commission of a crime or where they pose a danger to said persons or others. The firearms shall be held by the San Antonio Police Department and released only to an adult who can demonstrate ownership. This provision will serve to prevent those under the age of seventeen from harming themselves or others. Firearms not claimed within ninety (90) days shall be destroyed.

(d) A letter shall be sent by the Department of Community Initiatives to the parent(s) or guardian(s) of any person charged under this section advising of the charge and asking for their cooperation in better supervising the child.

(Ord. No. 79328, § 6, 12-16-93; Ord. No. 84805, § 4, 9-19-96)

Sec. 21-157. - Carrying of weapons, including concealed handguns, on city-owned premises prohibited; posting of notice.

(a) It is the intent of the city council to prohibit any person other than a commissioned security officer employed by the city and licensed peace officers from carrying or possessing weapons including concealed handguns on city-owned premises, including city-owned buildings, parking garages, lots, and other parking areas but excluding city-owned or operated public parks, streets and sidewalks.

(b) It is the intent of the city council that the term weapon shall include a firearm, handgun, club, illegal knife, knife, and any prohibited weapon listed in Texas Penal Code Section 46.05(a) and have the same meaning as said items are defined in Section 46.01, Texas Penal Code.

(c) The city council directs the city manager, or his designee to post the appropriate signs and such other notice, in accordance with Section 30.05 of the Texas Penal Code (the Criminal Trespass Law), to carry out the city council's above-stated intent.

(d) The city manager is authorized to take all steps reasonable and necessary to deny entry or continued presence on city-owned premises to all such persons possessing weapons including concealed handguns, including prosecution of such violators for the offense of criminal trespass.

(Res. No. 95-52-66, 12-21-95)

Editor's note— Provisions enacted by Res. No. 95-52-66, adopted Dec. 21, 1995, have been included herein at the discretion of the editor as § 21-157.
Secs. 21-158—21-160. - Reserved.

 

[PB&J]

Not sure of your exact point there maj but I'll say this:

I just called 210-207-8590 and was told it's OK, but he offered to TRF me to his Sgt. The Sgt told me yes, then referred me to Municode.com if I was interested in further info...and here it is. The underlined part is the nitty gritty.

https://www.municode.com/library/tx...IPR_ARTVIREFIWE_S21-157CAWEINCOHACINEPRPRPONO

Sec. 21-157. - Carrying of weapons, including concealed handguns, on city-owned premises prohibited; posting of notice.

(a) It is the intent of the city council to prohibit any person other than a commissioned security officer employed by the city and licensed peace officers from carrying or possessing weapons including concealed handguns on city-owned premises, including city-owned buildings, parking garages, lots, and other parking areas but excluding city-owned or operated public parks, streets and sidewalks.

 

[majormadmax]

Not sure of your exact point there maj but I'll say this:

I just called 210-207-8590 and was told it's OK, but he offered to TRF me to his Sgt. The Sgt told me yes, then referred me to Municode.com if I was interested in further info...and here it is. The underlined part is the nitty gritty.

Really? You're getting legal advice from a police substation? I was at a SAPD meeting this weekend, and heard a senior officer make two erroneous comments concerning open carry. You want a legal interpretation? Talk to a lawyer!

By the way, this is my point...

Sec. 21-153. - Carrying a firearm prohibited; exceptions.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a firearm within the city limits of the City of San Antonio at:

(1) A public park; or

So yes, you can be arrested, but not likely prosecuted because of the Texas Government Code on preemption.

That said, I have never let the SA ordinance stop me from carrying in city parks...

 

[PB&J]

OK, you've explained your interpretation of 21-153.

What's your interpretation of 21-157?

I see it as 21-153 addresses "weapons" and 21-157 addresses "concealed weapons," as indicated by the section titles.

 

[PB&J]

I sent an email to TXDPS about my interpretation of 21-153 and 21-157. About 10 yrs ago Brad Zelinski, Att'y for TXDPS answered a question I had. I've found those folks most helpful.

 

[majormadmax]

OK, you've explained your interpretation of 21-153.

What's your interpretation of 21-157?

I see it as 21-153 addresses "weapons" and 21-157 addresses "concealed weapons," as indicated by the section titles.

It doesn't matter, you can be charged under 21-153 despite 21-157.

Secondly, DPS is not who you need to contact about a legal interpretation; that would be the state attorney's office.

Lastly, as I have stated, the entire matter is negated by preemption under the TGC; but as the ordinance is law (right or wrong), you can be arrested for it. I can't recall a single instance were anyone has been, but it's possible...

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Lastly, as I have stated, the entire matter is negated by preemption under the TGC; but as the ordinance is law (right or wrong), you can be arrested for it. I can't recall a single instance were anyone has been, but it's possible...

Seemed possible to me when the SAPD officer told me he could do it. Maybe he thought he was warning me, maybe he just wanted to throw it in my face as just another thing I was doing wrong, or maybe he wanted to look like a "good guy" for not arresting me or giving me a ticket.

Who knows, wonder what it would take to get that ordinance repealed?

 

[Twomill]

It doesn't matter, you can be charged under 21-153 despite 21-157.

Secondly, DPS is not who you need to contact about a legal interpretation; that would be the state attorney's office.

Lastly, as I have stated, the entire matter is negated by preemption under the TGC; but as the ordinance is law (right or wrong), you can be arrested for it. I can't recall a single instance were anyone has been, but it's possible...

I bet if they did make an arrest under the commie ordinances, a good attorney could make it worth yours and his time.