Hurley's Gold

San Antonio gun store owner speaks out against open carry

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    Oct 13, 2008
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    Austin
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/35433269.html

    "You might think gun owners would say that is a great thing, but those who know guns the best say, "Not so fast."
    Gun storeowner and concealed handgun instructor Jerry McCall is opposed to open carry.
    He says police, who carry their guns out in the open, use more expensive holsters that secure the gun in three places, making it less likely that a criminal can steal it and use it against them.
    But not everyone pays for the better, more expensive holsters, making them and their gun a target to a potential criminal.
    "There is that gun sticking out for the whole world to grab, and all it takes is one idiot," McCall said."

    This fellow needs the Jim Zumbo treatment. Apparently he has never been to Arizona, where citizens have been carrying openly for years, and it hasn't been a problem. Are we to believe that we Texans are somehow inferior to Arizonans when it comes to firearms competence? I don't think so.

    I must say I'm long out of patience for people in the firearms business speaking out publicly against the Second Amendment, or more freedom for the rest of us (e.g. Jim Zumbo, Joaquin Jackson, Bill Ruger, etc.).

    "First they came for the machine guns, and I didn’t speak up because I had no machine guns.
    Then they came for the “assault weapons,” and I didn't speak up because I had no assault weapons.
    Then they came for the rifles, and I didn't speak up because I had no rifles.
    Then they came for the handguns, and I didn't speak up because I had no handguns.
    Finally, they came for my double-barreled shotgun, and I only managed to kill two of them. (before they mowed me down with their machine guns, assault weapons, rifles and handguns (while I was trying to reload))."

    "We must all hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately" - Benjamin Franklin

    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek neither your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams
    Target Sports
     

    juwaba98

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    May 9, 2008
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    What gun store does he own? I'd reccomend boycotting his establishment if he thinks we common folk aren't responsible enough to carry the weapons he sells. I suppose in his fine establishment he has taken all of the cheap non-retention holsters out of his inventory so that he is only selling the "safest" holsters available as well. Sounds like a man that doesn't realize he may well be biting the hands that feed him.
     
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    Oct 13, 2008
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    What gun store does he own? I'd reccomend boycotting his establishment if he thinks we common folk aren't responsible enough to carry the weapons he sells. I suppose in his fine establishment he has taken all of the cheap non-retention holsters out of his inventory so that he is only selling the "safest" holsters available as well. Sounds like a man that doesn't realize he may well be biting the hands that feed him.

    Jerry McCall owns Texas Guns of San Antonio, Arrowhead Gun Shop in Kerrville Texas and Texas Thunder Range in San Antonio, according to this

    And yes, he sells guns, but doesn't trust Texans to actually carry them? I think he should be boycotted straight out of business for his pompous, condescending, elitist attitude.
     

    Pawdog

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    Jun 21, 2008
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    "Gun store owner and concealed handgun instructor Jerry McCall is opposed to open carry".

    The above line says why he's against it. He teaches a concealed carry course, and will lose money when open carry is legalized. I too would not buy from this idiot, as he does not think gun owners, his customer base, can be trusted to carry openly what he sells!
     

    Furyataurus

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    Jun 8, 2008
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    I know exactly where that RIP off store is. When I was looking to buy my first handgun I went there and asked how much for an HK USP 9 and they said $1K!!!!! Then I went to Nagle's and they wanted $950!!!! And later one of my friends put me into contact with an FFL dealer who got me my HK USP 9 for $800 out the door. Later I saw an NIB HK USP 9 for $615 a year later at saxet!!!!:banghead:
     

    Shorts

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    "CHL" on the whole shouldn't be worried. Any OCer is a gun carrier - period. Even when they travel. They still need a TX CHL for reciprocity purposes during out of state travel...with the caveat at the person cannot carry OC or CC without any permit. Anyone go to Vermont often?

    So, now, "CHL" is NOT a reason.
     

    ST5MF

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    I know exactly where that RIP off store is. When I was looking to buy my first handgun I went there and asked how much for an HK USP 9 and they said $1K!!!!! Then I went to Nagle's and they wanted $950!!!! And later one of my friends put me into contact with an FFL dealer who got me my HK USP 9 for $800 out the door. Later I saw an NIB HK USP 9 for $615 a year later at saxet!!!!:banghead:

    I went to his shop years ago. He had an plain GI style M1A there for $2500! About $1K over the market value. His prices are way above retail; only the uneducated/ill-informed must buy from him. I believe Arrowhead in Kerrville went under a long time ago...

    He is definetely a rip-off artist! He wants $50 a month to use his range! I pay $100 a year to use a range in Southern California!; and unlike his range I can bring my own blanking ammo!

    Check out rule #4 and #11.

    I like the fact he uses "orders" instead of directions in rule #2.


    Why the "bleep" does your bag need to be inspected?
    1. Shooters must follow all posted range rules.
    2. Shooters must follow the Range Master's orders.
    3. Shooting is adult entertainment - you must be 18 years or older unless accompanied by an adult to participate. Anyone under 21 years of age is prohibited from possessing or shooting handguns at this range without adult supervision.
    4. Shooters must use ammo purchased at Texas Guns.
    5. Persons under the influence of Alcohol or illegal substances will not be allowed to shoot.
    6. Proper dress: no shorts, no sandals. Pants and closed toed shoes are required.
    7. Proper safety equipment - Eye and Ear Protection must be worn at all times.
    8. Only firearms in perfect working condition will be allowed on the Range.
    9. If you have a mechanical problem and need assistance, place your Firearm on shelf and alert the Range Master.
    10. All shooters are required to stay behind the shooting line.
    11. Shooters are required to pick up spent brass or push it over the shooting line for the Range Master to collect.
    12. No Food and Drinks are allowed in the range at any time.
    13. All Range Bags/gun cases will be inspected by the Range Master prior to entering the range.
    So like his firearms pricing you will probably have to pay through the nose to use his ammo and then he keeps the most expensive component- the "brass."

    The big mystery to me is how this crook stays in business? I know he is an AirFarce Vet too. If I ever make it back to TX; I may just open my own range and put this "crook" out of business!
     

    Shorts

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    Alright, let me explain rule #4 and #11 in general.

    4. Shooters must use ammo purchased at Texas Guns.

    While I dislike the 'scam' of purchasers required to buy from the range itself, most indoor ranges specify the type of ammo that can be shot. Ranges are build specifically to handle certain types. I side on "personal responsibility" side of shooters bringing the proper ammo. But as a business owner, with my butt on the line, its up to me to enforce and be certain my terms are met or risk liability.


    11. Shooters are required to pick up spent brass or push it over the shooting line for the Range Master to collect.

    In what world do you not pick up spent brass????? Indoor ranges it is common courtesy and general user's rules to sweep your brass. Behind the firing lines are brooms and those folding dust pans on a stick. Use them! And this just isn't an indoor range thing either. Outdoor ranges also require cleaning up your brass, usually when the firing line is covered and a cement foundation/floor is laid down. Respect the place! It is not yours - you a merely a visitor!


    Overall, I see no issue with his posted rules. This is his place and when he is responsible for the safety of the patrons its up to him to control the environment as best as possible.

    "Orders of the RM" - while I hate the nanny state thing, on the firing line, there are all k indsof shooters...from well skilled to brand new to plain stupid. A RMs job is to keep everyone safe out there and if he says "Range cold!" you darn well need to listen without questioning. Disobeying calls pout there can get someone hurt of killed.


    I know I'm preaching to the choir here. But don't rag on this guy for everything under the sun because he disagrees with OC. Stick to legitimate complaints. I just don't see rule #4 or #11 as problems. I never been in his place so I can't speak for the prices or his general character or friendliness.
     

    ST5MF

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    Alright, let me explain rule #4 and #11 in general.

    4. Shooters must use ammo purchased at Texas Guns.

    While I dislike the 'scam' of purchasers required to buy from the range itself, most indoor ranges specify the type of ammo that can be shot. Ranges are build specifically to handle certain types. I side on "personal responsibility" side of shooters bringing the proper ammo. But as a business owner, with my butt on the line, its up to me to enforce and be certain my terms are met or risk liability.


    11. Shooters are required to pick up spent brass or push it over the shooting line for the Range Master to collect.

    In what world do you not pick up spent brass????? Indoor ranges it is common courtesy and general user's rules to sweep your brass. Behind the firing lines are brooms and those folding dust pans on a stick. Use them! And this just isn't an indoor range thing either. Outdoor ranges also require cleaning up your brass, usually when the firing line is covered and a cement foundation/floor is laid down. Respect the place! It is not yours - you a merely a visitor!


    Overall, I see no issue with his posted rules. This is his place and when he is responsible for the safety of the patrons its up to him to control the environment as best as possible.

    "Orders of the RM" - while I hate the nanny state thing, on the firing line, there are all k indsof shooters...from well skilled to brand new to plain stupid. A RMs job is to keep everyone safe out there and if he says "Range cold!" you darn well need to listen without questioning. Disobeying calls pout there can get someone hurt of killed.


    I know I'm preaching to the choir here. But don't rag on this guy for everything under the sun because he disagrees with OC. Stick to legitimate complaints. I just don't see rule #4 or #11 as problems. I never been in his place so I can't speak for the prices or his general character or friendliness.

    FYI I never pick up my brass when I use ranges in SOCAL. They prefer you don't sweep it during range hours either because it kicks up all the unburned powder etc and is annoying to the other shooters. FYI if you are going to PAY MONEY to use a range then like paying money to eat out you don't CLEAN-UP after yourself. I sure as hell don't clear the table and do the dishes after dinner at RuthsChris, do you?

    The parameters are easy to set for ammo as well. Most pistol ammo won't harm the backstops of a decent indoor range. FYI I am not a green shooter and actually carry and use guns to make a living.

    This Gerry McCall is a "TURD!" PLAIN and SIMPLE!
     

    Shorts

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    They prefer you don't sweep it during range hours either because it kicks up all the unburned powder etc and is annoying to the other shooters.
    lol you mean so they can keep your brass so they can reload it for their own gain.... At any rate, its just plain courteous no matter how you slice it to clean up after yourself at ANY range.


    As you said, you pay your money, you go where you want. Can't please everyone.

    Ruth's Chris, I ate there once, San Diego there on the water front...must say, not a great steak. Frankly, overpriced. I come from Texas sir, I know how to make a good steak.
     

    hoytinak

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    I never pick up my brass when I use ranges in SOCAL

    Guess us Texans are a little more polite than others. Even if I didn't have to I'd pick up my brass as a courtesy to fellow shooters. Maybe it's the OCD in me but I like shooting in nice, clean ranges.
     

    Texan2

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    I hesitated about whether to post this or not, but here goes...
    While I would not buy from an overpriced dealer....it is his right to price his product as he sees fit. Obviously there are those out there willing to pay his prices. If you dont like his rules or prices, shop elsewhere. that is our right.
    I am not sure where the idea came from that every pro 2A person will automatically support "open carry"?
    I personally know more lifetime gun owners, NRA members, and hunters, that oppose open carry than support it.
    I personally couldnt care less and will support it in as much as I dont like any govt agency restricting rights....
    BUT, open carry is by any measure a BAD BAD BAD idea for the general public. What we are going to face if this passes is nearly 100% "30.06 signs" or their equivalent, telling people to leave their guns outside. and you may as well hang a sign on your neck that says "kill me first please". For all of you that think this is the wild west and you can draw and fire faster than someone who is commiting a crime and has their gun in their hand....you are dreaming. You are drawing unncecesary attention to yourself by open carrying and that usually ends bad. and while you may not agree with this guy...his point about open carry is valid...with a level 1 holster a perp has time to analyze how to disarm you....
    Why would someone not want to carry concealed and have the element of surprise when you are needed most???
    SO....I will continue to support with reservations, this bill....but only out of spite for the antis....
     

    ST5MF

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    Guess us Texans are a little more polite than others. Even if I didn't have to I'd pick up my brass as a courtesy to fellow shooters. Maybe it's the OCD in me but I like shooting in nice, clean ranges.

    I guess you prefer all the lead and powder kicked up in the air to inhale too. Brass on the floor or excess crap in your lungs. Darwin is constantly at work.
     

    ST5MF

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    lol you mean so they can keep your brass so they can reload it for their own gain.... At any rate, its just plain courteous no matter how you slice it to clean up after yourself at ANY range.


    As you said, you pay your money, you go where you want. Can't please everyone.

    Ruth's Chris, I ate there once, San Diego there on the water front...must say, not a great steak. Frankly, overpriced. I come from Texas sir, I know how to make a good steak.

    I don't pay for my ammo. My "uncle" does. I have an indoor range at work as well. It is not courteous to kick up lead and powder for others to inhale; it is idiotic and rude.

    FYI I am from TX too. I am stationed in CA.

    And, RuthsChris was just an example; it may be expensive but you aren't paying for just the steak. The service is outstanding. Again you are paying for the service. You don't pay then clean-up after yourself like at TX blunder shooting range.
     

    idleprocess

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    BUT, open carry is by any measure a BAD BAD BAD idea for the general public. What we are going to face if this passes is nearly 100% "30.06 signs" or their equivalent, telling people to leave their guns outside. and you may as well hang a sign on your neck that says "kill me first please". For all of you that think this is the wild west and you can draw and fire faster than someone who is commiting a crime and has their gun in their hand....you are dreaming. You are drawing unncecesary attention to yourself by open carrying and that usually ends bad. and while you may not agree with this guy...his point about open carry is valid...with a level 1 holster a perp has time to analyze how to disarm you....

    I wonder how often this happens in states that allow open carry and it is practiced with some regularity, such as Arizona? Everyone knows that the "Running gun battles in the streets!" argument is bullshit since OC does not suddenly turn responsible adults into gunsels from the GTA video game franchise... There must be some data available to support or rebut this theory.
     

    ST5MF

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    While I would not opt for open carry- personally... The FREEDOM to do so by law abiding Americans should be allowed.
     

    Texan2

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    I wonder how often this happens in states that allow open carry and it is practiced with some regularity, such as Arizona? Everyone knows that the "Running gun battles in the streets!" argument is bullshit since OC does not suddenly turn responsible adults into gunsels from the GTA video game franchise... There must be some data available to support or rebut this theory.

    I agree...but am not sure where the "running gun battles in the streets" reference comes from? Re-read what I wrote...

    In addition, open carry is not all that common, even in states where it is legal. I have been to Arizona, know people that live in Arizona and they tell me it is quite uncommon to see anyone carrying openly. Most with any knowledge at all about self defense or defensive firearm tactics would not opt to open carry as it puts you at a distinct tactical disadvantage.

    As previously stated, I supprt the legislation to permit it...just dont get why anyone would want to do it.
     

    idleprocess

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    I agree...but am not sure where the "running gun battles in the streets" reference comes from? Re-read what I wrote...
    It's an argument that the anti's commonly use when arguing against concealed or open carry - that the average person will suddenly go hog wild if in possession of a firearm in public.

    In addition, open carry is not all that common, even in states where it is legal. I have been to Arizona, know people that live in Arizona and they tell me it is quite uncommon to see anyone carrying openly.
    I didn't know it was a rarity.

    Most with any knowledge at all about self defense or defensive firearm tactics would not opt to open carry as it puts you at a distinct tactical disadvantage.
    I understand this. I'm just wondering if criminals actually target folks who open carry - directly or during the commision of other crimes (such as armed robbery) - or if people OC'ing have a similar effect to the presence of a police officer and the thugs simply move on to easier targets?
     
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