For the sake of discussion I know there have been many posts on this subject all over the internet Id like some information from a directly citeable(is that a word?) where for an individual filing a form 1 is required to engrave the firearm. As Ive started to receive my form 1s back Ive been doing a ton of reading on this subject because there is very little information on it pertaining to an individual registering their firearm as a SB whatever.
To pretext this Im not saying Im right, just simply trying to find someone that can show me where on the ATF site that engraving is required by an individual registering a firearm as a short barrel.
In the FAQ section for short barrel firearms it mentions nothing about engraving which seems odd to me that they don't at least reference the ATF guidelines for engraving.
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns | ATF
The guidelines for engraving all talk about manufacturers of firearms and how they need to mark them
Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - Firearms Verification Overview | ATF
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
Some will say that by filing the form 1 YOU are now the manufacturer. Ok Ill buy that to a certain extent but then why does the ATF want the SN, Manufacturer, and address all to be from the company who made the lower in the case of an AR15? If I am now the manufacturer why isn't my information input into those sections of the form 1?
In addition, for those that have filled out a form 1 and actually paid attention to the 3rd and 4th pages of the form, it explicitly explains each and every square, even goes so far as to tell you what color of ink to fill the paper out with but yet nowhere on the form does it say a word about engraving. Furthermore, for years people were able to fill out the form 1 with multi as caliber, or list multiple calibers yet everyone who Ive seen with an engraved lower only lists the persons name or trust name and the city/state. Now it seems the ATF will no longer allow mult as an answer to caliber even though its still in the drop down tab on the eform 1 as a caliber and will not allow multiple calibers at least on the eforms.
Next PWS and Noveske's factory SBR lowers are marked multi or don't even list a caliber so are they violating ATF rules? If you go by the letter of the law from what is shown on the ATFs website for what some say is the requirements for an individual as well since they are now a manufacturer when they slap a short barrel on, they would have to have an actual caliber engraved as well as their name and location.
It just makes no sense to me how we as individuals are required to engrave lowers that we have done nothing but put a short barrel on the upper, when everything I read points to it not being necessary. Maybe just my wishful interpretation of what Im reading? Ive even seen copies of letters from the ATF posted on various forums saying engraving is not necessary but have also seen some that say it is. Ive also read forum posts from people saying they talked to such and such with the ATF and they were told they needed to but I think we can all agree that you can ask the same question to 10 different people there and get 10 different answers with how terribly unorganized they are. FWIW Ive also read a few forum posts saying they talked to some at the ATF and they were told they didn't need to. Thus my retreat to trying to find it laid out on a .gov site.
I would just email the ATF to get an answer for myself but Im afraid of opening up a can of worms if in fact what some of these manufacturers have been doing is not right. Ive read through the ATF's site pretty thoroughly and am mainly wondering if Ive overlooked something on their site. Forum posts from joe blow aren't enough for me, Im looking for actual information from a legit website. To me it seems at the very least, people who are not getting the caliber engraved as well are not following the letter of the law when theyre using a lower that is marked multi by the original manufacturer. Also with there seeming to be a shift in what the ATF is allowing for caliber entries on the forms, if you did engrave your lower with 5.56 but then ran a 300blk barrel you could send a letter to the ATF noting your caliber change but your lower would be out of compliance with the rules since its not engraved with the correct caliber. In this thread there are multiple people who were disapproved due to putting multi in the caliber box
My efiled form 1 was approved in 3 months - AR15.COM
I know the simple answer is just get it engraved and call it good but Ive never been one to just go with the flow. I like to know why Im doing something and what is actually right but like with anything else the government has something to do with its a very convoluted journey to get to answer that may or may not be definitive.
To pretext this Im not saying Im right, just simply trying to find someone that can show me where on the ATF site that engraving is required by an individual registering a firearm as a short barrel.
In the FAQ section for short barrel firearms it mentions nothing about engraving which seems odd to me that they don't at least reference the ATF guidelines for engraving.
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns | ATF
The guidelines for engraving all talk about manufacturers of firearms and how they need to mark them
Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - Firearms Verification Overview | ATF
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
Some will say that by filing the form 1 YOU are now the manufacturer. Ok Ill buy that to a certain extent but then why does the ATF want the SN, Manufacturer, and address all to be from the company who made the lower in the case of an AR15? If I am now the manufacturer why isn't my information input into those sections of the form 1?
In addition, for those that have filled out a form 1 and actually paid attention to the 3rd and 4th pages of the form, it explicitly explains each and every square, even goes so far as to tell you what color of ink to fill the paper out with but yet nowhere on the form does it say a word about engraving. Furthermore, for years people were able to fill out the form 1 with multi as caliber, or list multiple calibers yet everyone who Ive seen with an engraved lower only lists the persons name or trust name and the city/state. Now it seems the ATF will no longer allow mult as an answer to caliber even though its still in the drop down tab on the eform 1 as a caliber and will not allow multiple calibers at least on the eforms.
Next PWS and Noveske's factory SBR lowers are marked multi or don't even list a caliber so are they violating ATF rules? If you go by the letter of the law from what is shown on the ATFs website for what some say is the requirements for an individual as well since they are now a manufacturer when they slap a short barrel on, they would have to have an actual caliber engraved as well as their name and location.
It just makes no sense to me how we as individuals are required to engrave lowers that we have done nothing but put a short barrel on the upper, when everything I read points to it not being necessary. Maybe just my wishful interpretation of what Im reading? Ive even seen copies of letters from the ATF posted on various forums saying engraving is not necessary but have also seen some that say it is. Ive also read forum posts from people saying they talked to such and such with the ATF and they were told they needed to but I think we can all agree that you can ask the same question to 10 different people there and get 10 different answers with how terribly unorganized they are. FWIW Ive also read a few forum posts saying they talked to some at the ATF and they were told they didn't need to. Thus my retreat to trying to find it laid out on a .gov site.
I would just email the ATF to get an answer for myself but Im afraid of opening up a can of worms if in fact what some of these manufacturers have been doing is not right. Ive read through the ATF's site pretty thoroughly and am mainly wondering if Ive overlooked something on their site. Forum posts from joe blow aren't enough for me, Im looking for actual information from a legit website. To me it seems at the very least, people who are not getting the caliber engraved as well are not following the letter of the law when theyre using a lower that is marked multi by the original manufacturer. Also with there seeming to be a shift in what the ATF is allowing for caliber entries on the forms, if you did engrave your lower with 5.56 but then ran a 300blk barrel you could send a letter to the ATF noting your caliber change but your lower would be out of compliance with the rules since its not engraved with the correct caliber. In this thread there are multiple people who were disapproved due to putting multi in the caliber box
My efiled form 1 was approved in 3 months - AR15.COM
I know the simple answer is just get it engraved and call it good but Ive never been one to just go with the flow. I like to know why Im doing something and what is actually right but like with anything else the government has something to do with its a very convoluted journey to get to answer that may or may not be definitive.