School Teacher (rant)

[TrailDust]

I think one of the more reprehensible things--social engineering to be precise--that at least school systems out here in California do is have "homework for parents," if you can believe that. I can testify that the kids often come home with at least half of their homework requiring the parents to participate with their kid. I'm sorry, helping with homework is one thing, but school/government mandated parental homework is another. Social engineering at its worst.

Oh, another mandatory thing a lost of school systems out here do: mandatory parental help for the teacher. Every day a different parent comes to class to act as the teacher's assistant, and there's no backing out for the sake of your kid's grades.

 

[ROGER4314]

I was a technician in industry and took a job teaching maintenance technicians. Later, I taught other technical trades classes including AutoCad. After 22 years of teaching in two states, I hung it up and went back to industry. I made TWICE as much money in industry! Don't tell me teachers are well paid.

The first 6 years of my teaching career in Texas were wonderful and will stand as the best years of my career. Those fantastic administrators retired and a new bunch came in followed by an even more pitiful bunch. The best job of my life turned to pure shxx. For the next 7 years, that became the job from HELL.

I was physically assaulted 7 times in my teaching career. One kid bashed me in the back of the head with a heavy drop cord light and I lost hearing in my left ear. I disarmed one who was intent on hurting someone with a knife.

I was threatened many times by those darling children and my home and vehicles were also vandalized. Interestingly, I began to carry a digital audio recorder and repeatedly had the little bastards ON TAPE threatening me! How was that resolved? I got in trouble for carrying the recorder and NEVER got help with the violence! NOT ONCE!

Our class tools were stolen and destroyed and my shop was set on fire several times. Cans of paint were smashed against the wall and safety glasses were destroyed daily. Did I write the turds up? Hell yes! The result.....NADA!

We had some of the coolest damned projects and the turds absolutely destroyed them!

I personally uncovered a scheme where our students were using equipment in one of the classes to manufacture and sell fake ID cards. That went nowhere because a lot of the people who were involved were heavily connected in the town. Administration squashed it!

To give you an example of my last year in the public schools, in ONE of my classes, three students were written up 42 times in one term. The administration talked to them and sent them right back to class each time. I tried to get one of the worst kids removed from the class and the principal overruled it.

I left the school system to work inside a major prison. I was much safer in the prison!

Sorry administration has made the school system a battleground. During the first 6 years of my work in Texas, A kid punched me twice and I laid him out on the floor so I wouldn't get hit again. The principal said "He shouldn't have put his hands on you."

Fast forward a few years. Two big Seniors pushed me backwards over a pickup truck hood while screaming and cursing me. When I pushed them away, it resulted in disciplinary action against ME! It took me a month of grievances to beat that charge but I finally won.

All the teachers that I know want the hell out of the job and I would not recommend teaching as a career to anyone I cared about. You don't like the public school system? Great! I don't either! Lock, stock and barrel........it can all go straight to Hell.

Flash

 

[TexasRedneck]

Well....Let me first start out by saying that my loving bride is a teacher...one with a Masters Degree that is less than 3 hours away from her Doctorate. After 29 years as a teacher, her annual salary is 62,000/year. I've got a GED, and after 10 years with my employer, my annual salary is substantially higher.
She gets up at 5 am every school day, leaves the house at 6:30 and the earliest she's gotten home this year is 6 pm. Sunday is spent doing lesson plans, a weekly newsletter (printed at OUR expense) for the students, and reviewing various forms, programs, etc. All told, she spends at least 4 hours each Sunday doing that. Oh - and on weeknights, she's averaging 2-3 hours minimum grading papers, writing out various reports and answering parental emails/phone calls/letters. During the Thanksgiving "break" she spent at minimum 11 hours on various tasks related directly to her job.
She's been threatened with physical assault 3 out of the past 5 years by different students, called a "b****" by one student to her face, and told to "f*** off" by several others. About 6 years ago, a parent threatened to follow her and shoot her on the street. In each and every one of these instances, children were sent to the office and/or the administration notified of errant parental behaviour....with NO remedial action taken against the offender. NONE - period.
We get phone calls at home at all hours (generally speaking up until about 10 pm - but in one outstanding example of parental excellence a drunk mother called about 2 am to complain about her darlings grades - despite the repeated requests for a parent conference she'd ignored to discuss her students' refusal to do ANY homework, and not even completing her classroom assignments. Our number is unlisted - yet the parents are able to bully the school into giving it to them. Some have even managed to find her cell number.
And let's talk for a minute about all the parents....and "inclusion". My wife averages 2-3 "special needs" children each year. These are kids that are handicapped in one way or another - often, kids that are lacking the mental capacity to grasp the work at hand. Now, what happens to a child that isn't able to learn? They get bored - and start acting out. That means the teacher has to stop teaching the rest of the class and focus on getting that child back under control. When you spend half your time attempting to control errant students, who loses? The kids that CAN learn - and yet how many of you are even aware that ALL kids (essentially) are now "mainstreamed" in Texas schools - which means that this repeats itself in a good 90% of EVERY classroom in this state?
Removal of corporal punishment in the schools has virtually guaranteed the further decline of discipline - and let's face it, a kid that doesn't fear punishment will quickly realize that they have NOTHING to fear. Yet parents don't want their precious "friend" disciplined - which quickly turns what SHOULD have been a caring and wonderful child into an out-of-control monster. I've seen kids that were totally wild come under control simply because they thought that corporal punishment was a viable possibility.
And let's not talk about the lack of respect for teachers - which the OP's initial post makes all too clear. Tell me how someone is supposed to be dedicated to a job in which a complaint by any of their 22 (or more) students parents can find them in trouble, get reprimanded - or fired? Despite everything you hear, Texas teachers are subject to not having their contracts renewed each year. Yes - some are there that shouldn't be, but most are there because they love their students - in the case of my wife specifically, she passed on the opportunity to move to a better district because she loved the kids in her district, and felt that she COULD make a difference for them.
Oh....and did I mention that these lovely students that've called her names and threatened her with physical violence...are fourth graders?!?
A local reporter followed a teacher around for a week a few years back, and at the end of the week confessed that like many, she thought that teachers "had it easy". She confessed that by the end of the week, she finally came to the realization that teaching IS a calling by most - because otherwise, they wouldn't put up with the hours and hassles encounterred.
There's more - LOTS more - that needs to be considered when you think teachers have cushy jobs, but hopefully the above will at least cause some of you to rethink and look deeper into what REALLY goes on in our public schools. Remember that the schools react to the input of the parents, and adjust their policies accordingly. It's a juggernaut that IS very hard to change course with - but until the parents themselves start demanding a better system (and one that will finally return a corporal punishment), it's not going to get any better.
And before some start jumping on the "no one is gonna spank MY child" bandwagon - let me remind you that I raised my share - 4 of 'em - and know that each is different. One of my sons could be controlled simply by me giving him a disapproving look (for the most part). Another needed a good, old-fashioned "come-to-Jesus" woodshedding before I finally got him back under control. Not every child needs a spanking - but they all need to fear one.

Sorry for bein' so long-winded....

 

[DCortez]

And before some start jumping on the "no one is gonna spank MY child" bandwagon

NO ONE is going to spank my kid ... unless they get to him first


Cy Fair may have it's problems, but at least we have an $80 million dollar sports complex to show for it. MMM, sports & brother in law priorities ...

 

[Shorts]

I was a technician in industry and took a job teaching maintenance technicians. Later, I taught other technical trades classes including AutoCad. After 22 years of teaching in two states, I hung it up and went back to industry. I made TWICE as much money in industry! Don't tell me teachers are well paid.

The first 6 years of my teaching career in Texas were wonderful and will stand as the best years of my career. Those fantastic administrators retired and a new bunch came in followed by an even more pitiful bunch. The best job of my life turned to pure shxx. For the next 7 years, that became the job from HELL.

I was physically assaulted 7 times in my teaching career. One kid bashed me in the back of the head with a heavy drop cord light and I lost hearing in my left ear. I disarmed one who was intent on hurting someone with a knife.

I was threatened many times by those darling children and my home and vehicles were also vandalized. Interestingly, I began to carry a digital audio recorder and repeatedly had the little bastards ON TAPE threatening me! How was that resolved? I got in trouble for carrying the recorder and NEVER got help with the violence! NOT ONCE!

Our class tools were stolen and destroyed and my shop was set on fire several times. Cans of paint were smashed against the wall and safety glasses were destroyed daily. Did I write the turds up? Hell yes! The result.....NADA!

We had some of the coolest damned projects and the turds absolutely destroyed them!

I personally uncovered a scheme where our students were using equipment in one of the classes to manufacture and sell fake ID cards. That went nowhere because a lot of the people who were involved were heavily connected in the town. Administration squashed it!

To give you an example of my last year in the public schools, in ONE of my classes, three students were written up 42 times in one term. The administration talked to them and sent them right back to class each time. I tried to get one of the worst kids removed from the class and the principal overruled it.

I left the school system to work inside a major prison. I was much safer in the prison!

Sorry administration has made the school system a battleground. During the first 6 years of my work in Texas, A kid punched me twice and I laid him out on the floor so I wouldn't get hit again. The principal said "He shouldn't have put his hands on you."

Fast forward a few years. Two big Seniors pushed me backwards over a pickup truck hood while screaming and cursing me. When I pushed them away, it resulted in disciplinary action against ME! It took me a month of grievances to beat that charge but I finally won.

All the teachers that I know want the hell out of the job and I would not recommend teaching as a career to anyone I cared about. You don't like the public school system? Great! I don't either! Lock, stock and barrel........it can all go straight to Hell.

Flash

My mom is...well was a teacher and has been teaching since '77. All she does not is Sub. She has her Masters, has all her certs up to date. Has always gone the extra mile to keep her education updated. She is SEVERELY under paid for what she does. Her experiences in the classroom were similar to above in regards to verbal abuse. Her admin does NOT back her and does one step further to tear her down out of personal riffs. Not only did those riffs force her out of that school but since it was her Principal and a reference as most recent boss, mom can't get past the interview because of the indulging done by this particular reference.


Anyway, mom is currently putting in her application to the prison system. I feel for her that its to the point that she feels this is her only option left to remain in teaching. We have a family friend who's a guard at a prison and he's had the tar beat out of him by inmates several times. That is just part of the job unfortunately. You bet I worry about mom going to the prison.


Honestly she'd be better going DoDs. I've seen and met the teachers on the bases we were at. They were good people, got to teach, got paid and got to travel.


Ok, I have no idea where I was going. But really, teachers are not overpaid. I've seen what mom goes through year after year. The crap behind the scenes. The pathetic excuses for "students". It ain't no one way street. And to say the education system is fallin' apart because of the teachers is absolutely short-sighted and not right at all.

I agree that teachers shouldn't use their position to indoctrinate students. But that has nothing to do with their salary and everything to do with their teaching style and personality. I wouldn't be a teacher if my life depended on it. I almost went into coaching, I wanted to be a basketball coach. But even then I was scared off by the potential of getting into a school system with kids who'd happily slit my throat for fun between classes and all while being paid in beans. I had visions of 'Stand and Deliver' and 'The Principle'. Umm, no thanks.


TexasRedneck, I think I've read a little bit before about your wifes teaching experiences. Spot on with the crap good teachers have to put up with from maladjusted students who probably won't ever be productive members of society.

 

[thorkyl]

What I hate is when the teachers don't know the subject they are teaching.

I have to spend 2 hours a night teaching my kid the geography since her geo teacher and I had a heated discussion on the fact that Cuba was NOT part of central America.

That putz actually attempted to prove the case to me.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I have to spend 2 hours a night teaching my kid the geography since her geo teacher and I had a heated discussion on the fact that Cuba was NOT part of central America.

That putz actually attempted to prove the case to me.

NO argument there! How many meetings have you had w/the principal, Superintendent and School Board about this? I am VERY supportive of teachers - was long before I met my current wife - but I'll also get right in their face when they're outta line.

Then again, my kids were taught that teachers WOULD be respected and that if they had issues with one, they were to tell me, and I'd let 'em know what to do from there. 99.99% of the time, the kids were way off (they're kids - they see things from THEIR perspective). ONE time they weren't - and that teacher lost her job before I was done. It wasn't a minor issue, and as such I went straight to the nuke option. Usually it was a gray area, and I'd simply tell the kids that the teacher was like me - always right.

Seriously - can't tell you how many times I've seen kids go home and tell their folks such whoppers that you couldn't believe they'd even THINK it could be true - but they'd come runnin' to the school ready to go to war. I can fully appreciate a parent supporting their kids - I did - but there's just some folks that simply shouldn't be allowed to call themselves parents.....

 

[thorkyl]

Oh, I have had quite a few discussions about it.
Just like the when I wnet to the board meeting 3 days before BHO's school speech.
and told them flat out if they allow it I will run and fund anybody that runs against them.
my friend (they did not know that at the time) stood up and said I will run.

I looked at him and said "Will $25,000 get your campaign started" (i didn't 25k), the head of the district soiled his britches and since then when I go in they listen to me.

Not had any problems with the district, now its just the morons in the classroom, they are next.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Thanks - because you're the exception to the rule. Most parents won't take the time to give it anything but lip service - other than to make a teachers' life miserable. Don't get me wrong - I'll be the first to tell you that there are teachers that have no business being there - but the problem is keeping the GOOD ones. There's too many other things they can do that pays better. Upon retirement, my wife is looking at a couple of private-sector jobs that START at 100k/yr - and they're not even "good" jobs!

 

[thorkyl]

Your right, I am a firm believer in two rules when it comes to teachers

1 - Make them pass with at least a 95 every test they give the student
2 - Pay them according to how well the kids do
-->each kid that gets less than 80% as a grade the teacher looses 5% of pay
-->if all kids get 100% then bonus
-->grading done by parents

 

[TexasRedneck]

Your right, I am a firm believer in two rules when it comes to teachers

1 - Make them pass with at least a 95 every test they give the student
2 - Pay them according to how well the kids do
-->each kid that gets less than 80% as a grade the teacher looses 5% of pay
-->if all kids get 100% then bonus
-->grading done by parents

Well....let's take a look at this. When the students have "learning disabilities" or simply don't care, you're going to punish the TEACHER for it? How in the world is that reasonable? While it sounds good on the surface, you need to watch some students in action - because they're there to be babysat, not to learn. Watch a teacher send progress report after progress report home about not turning in homework/classwork without response from the parent, THEN tell me how it's gonna work.

If you'd read some of the correspondence my wife DOES get from parents, you'd cry. Basic sentence structure and spelling isn't even comprehended, much less followed. And when you can't even get a parent to return a progress report (or ensure that their child has the basics of pen/paper/pencil), how in the WORLD are you going to get them to grade a paper?!?? There's an average of 94 papers (minimum) to grade each grading period per student - you DO want a logistical nightmare. And what are you going to do with the student that "loses" said papers??

That's the rub in all of this - trying to evaluate the effectiveness and abilities of a given teacher, because the "material" (students) each has to work with is so varied. Teachers are already evaluated by the administration every year - to a greater or lesser degree based on the particular school/administrator.

Now....let me ask you something else. How many kids fail in a given grade each year? Any idea? Is there a "minimum" grade required for each assignment in your school? Good luck finding a factual answer on that - because in MOST school, they'll tell you there's not - but let a parent come up screaming because Johnny (who never turns homework in) is failing, and you'll see a teacher called in on the carpet to give that student a "minimum grade" on every assignment until they have a passing grade. Yeah - it happens, and I've seen it with my own eyes. I've seen my wife in tears because she KNOWS that a child isn't mature enough to move on to the next grade, and has EARNED the failing grade that she wants to give them - but she can't. Clear your mind of preconceived notions and go find and befriend a good teacher, and get them to really open up to you. Most won't, because if the administrators find out they'll likely lose their jobs - but if you CAN do it, you're in for the shock of your life. Believe me on this - I've gotten to know a LOT of her peers, and the really good teachers stay around because of the calling, but many others are hanging it up because there's simply no way to REALLY teach any more because between the parents demanding their kid pass no matter what, and the end-all, be-all focus on the TAKS test results, the kids no longer learn.
Sit in a classroom and watch the "mainstreamed" kids - the ones that would've been in Special Ed 20 years ago - as they disrupt the class and distract the teacher. It's not the kids' fault - many of them are actually loving children, they're simply acting out because they don't have the mental or emotional maturity to remain on task - but they are destroying the educational opportunities of the capable kids in the name of some idealistic program that SOUNDS good, but has had disasterous consequences.

 

[ROGER4314]

"You're right, I am a firm believer in two rules when it comes to teachers

Make them pass with at least a 95 every test they give the student
Pay them according to how well the kids do
Each kid that gets less than 80% as a grade the teacher looses 5% of pay
If all kids get 100% then bonus
Grading done by parents"
==============================================================================

A couple of the posts hit on the correct problem here. As a "shop" teacher, I had about 35% special needs students. The counselors used to say "Send him to Flash's class. He'll take anyone." In fact, I specialized in helping special needs students and that is the problem with the plan advocated above.

Because my student population was lower functioning than the Chemistry or Physics teachers, the above plan would beat Hell out of me in evaluations. I was doing special work for special students in my career but your plan would penalize me for doing that!

The Chemistry teacher who had more adept students had fewer discipline issues and (frankly, in a lot of ways) an easier job, would be graded higher in your system than I would. If teachers were allowed to CHOOSE their students, we could all succeed in that evaluation!

Lets lay some cards on the table. I was treated like crap by my students who followed the lead of the school administrators. They behaved like criminals because they could get away with it. In spite of that, I had some wonderful successes with students who took what I taught and turned it into lucrative careers.

There were some, however who took my classes because they could team up with their buddies and wreck a class. We refer to those groups as "wrecking crews" and they are allowed to go from class to class working as a team to destroy any chance of successful teaching. We complained but admin NEVER addressed that issue.

Incidentally, I am a Master technician who was trained in some of the best schools in the nation. I'm a journeyman in hydraulics, pneumatics, mechanics, industrial electrical controls and well trained in electronics, industrial instrumentation and servo robotics.

If you'd like to test me on knowledge of my subject as many employers have done recently, I'll blow the top out of your grading scale.

I have a Masters Degree in Trade and Industrial Education with a perfect 4.0 GPA from Oklahoma State University and have completed 1/3 of a Doctorate in Education with a 3.9 GPA. I hold two lifetime teaching certifications in Texas and was a Master teacher in Oklahoma (now expired).

(Being presently unemployed, perhaps you could put in a good word for me. I'd rather eat a dog turd than go back to teaching in the public schools.)

In 1985, I quit my industry work to make a difference and to help kids learn a living. I worked for 22 years as a teacher of technical trades in vocational, junior college, university, prisons and public schools.

Please go back and read my previous post and see if there is any way to justify the treatment I received as a teacher in the public schools.

Flash

 

[Shorts]

Your right, I am a firm believer in two rules when it comes to teachers

1 - Make them pass with at least a 95 every test they give the student
2 - Pay them according to how well the kids do
-->each kid that gets less than 80% as a grade the teacher looses 5% of pay
-->if all kids get 100% then bonus
-->grading done by parents

I don't agree.

I see what you're getting at in regards to good teachers. Yes, we need good ones. Teachers who know their stuff and can reach and apply it to their students to get results.

But in the other hand, how long do you think a teacher would last if the students knew the above criteria? They'd easily use that system against a teacher to get them fired (they already do!). Putting a teacher's pay in the hands of kids is suicide and would destroy the entire public school system.

Teachers would vanish, never to return. I wouldn't put up with a salary system like that. To hell with the kids . Not when I could go elsewhere and be guaranteed to get paid (better) what my contract says.


Roger makes good points about the special needs kids. Mom taught a lot of these classes too. Some of those kids were more capable than others at grasping the material. And there was a lot of material required.

Now couple all this with the school requirements about passing all their TAKS...TAAS..whatever the heck they call it these days, there's not much room to expand on methods when a curriculum is required on a timeline and all that can be done is 'teach for the test'.


School isn't about learning anymore. It's about numbers. Quantity over quality. You'll never get a prestigious product if your goal is turn out .10 cent widgets.

 

[DCortez]

If parents don't give a crap about their kids, why do we expect teachers to?


Let's build another stadium and call the education system a success.

 

[TexasRedneck]

DC, that's the rub - the teachers DO care by and large. You can tell which ones they are by the fact that they spend 50+ hours a week AT the school, and another 10-20 hours a week working on things at home. The challenge comes from a parent coming in wanting to complain, and the spineless principal that'll side with ANY parent against the teacher. Tell me - what's their incentive? The ONLY thing that keeps them going is watching the comprehension spread across a students' face. I know - I've actually come in and given classes (adjusted for their age) in my specialty, plus having taught some college-level courses for A&M - and nothing matches the personal gratification of seeing the student "get it". But when all you get for your efforts are "dumping" of "learning-challenged" students into your class...why continue to do it? And THAT is something ONLY PARENTS CAN CHANGE.

 

[DCortez]

DC, that's the rub - the teachers DO care by and large.

I'm sure a lot do love to teach. However, they are being thrown in with unions, administrators, political correctness, bilingual teachers getting more $ (guess which agenda they push), and adults that should have never become parents.


In another thread, someone asked what is the first thing we would do if elected president. I said, dismantle the department of education.


I'd love to see people have more choice between charter schools, vouchers, home school, virtual school, etc..

 

[texas_teacher]

DC, that's the rub - the teachers DO care by and large. You can tell which ones they are by the fact that they spend 50+ hours a week AT the school, and another 10-20 hours a week working on things at home. The challenge comes from a parent coming in wanting to complain, and the spineless principal that'll side with ANY parent against the teacher. Tell me - what's their incentive? The ONLY thing that keeps them going is watching the comprehension spread across a students' face. I know - I've actually come in and given classes (adjusted for their age) in my specialty, plus having taught some college-level courses for A&M - and nothing matches the personal gratification of seeing the student "get it". But when all you get for your efforts are "dumping" of "learning-challenged" students into your class...why continue to do it? And THAT is something ONLY PARENTS CAN CHANGE.

I remember the day the security guards in our school district caught me sleeping in my classroom... They were like "um sir don't you have a house?" and I was like yeah but what's the point of driving home to do more work there, fall asleep on the couch and then wake up at 4:45 to be back at work doing it all over again? This way I atleast can save gas.

I saw the same guy come around multiple times later when I would stay til 7:30 or 8 asking when I was packing it up... Never slept there again...

A reading center and bean bag chair can be surprisingly comfortable.

If you think teachers should be paid by the hour good luck getting them to honestly calculate how many hours they work. If you think teachers should be paid by grades good luck keeping standards high. As soon as you start handing money for grades standards for individuals will fall because why should their class be penalized for doing harder work and making a lower grade when the class next to you is doing grade level or below grade level work and the class is making straight A's? You decide which one's the better teacher? Which one has the higher grades?

Also the will and drive for kids is based in the home. I wrote one of my dissertations on the effects of things such as socio-economic environments and parental influences, etc and it surprising how much even just a little thing like culture will change a students stance.

I won't say which students were found to have more value in the education and thus on a large percentage worked harder but comparing that to the ones who saw no relevance in what they learned to life and therefore could give a damn is quite interesting and some might be surprised.

 

[DCortez]

I won't say which students were found to have more value in the education and thus on a large percentage worked harder but comparing that to the ones who saw no relevance in what they learned to life and therefore could give a damn is quite interesting and some might be surprised.

Another tidbit I heard at the townhall meeting. Asian students are the best students. Illegal Hispanics had a 44% drop out rate.

 

[oldguy]

I'd love to see people have more choice between charter schools, vouchers, home school, virtual school, etc..

Same here, many good teachers but the bad teachers/administrators appear overall to out weight the good, let us face facts the system is corrupt,lack of discipline, lowering of standards across the board both in society and schools,diversity/political correctness hysteria running wild.

Sad fact some good kids want to learn but thrown into a system set up for baby sitting and indoctrination it's a losing battle ,send a good kid into the system in 12 years it's doubtful what you get back.

Certainly much of the problem is parents but I'm talking about families who actually try to foster values,education, good citizens, the public schools system works against them.

I personally advise friends, family with young children do anything possible to provide private schooling for there children.

 

[Texas42]

I think that we, as a society, have put children on a pedestle.

Children need to work hard, need to be diciplined, and need to realize how life works.

They don't need to be pampered threw their formative years. Education isn't a right, and children shouldn't think that life owes them anything, but they are taught that every day.