School Teacher (rant)

[ROGER4314]

The first year I taught in Texas, my tiny program budget was exhausted in January. After the school year ended, my principal told me he had to cut my budget. I handed him the keys and told him that I would not run the program out of my pocket any more.

He was a great guy and from that day for 5 more years, he built the budget so I could build a quality program.

He retired and the budget slashes began. The new administrators and the ones who came later, cut the budget to nothing and every year, I plugged $1000-1500 into the program from my pocket.

In fact, they needed more academic classrooms so we were forced out of one of our shop buildings in October. The nasty part was that maintenance didn't make that move. For 4 weeks, my students and I were required to cram the program equipment into one remaining building. That was 4 weeks off task, off curriculum to advance a strategy that was clearly preferential to academic classes and harmful to "shop" students.

How the Hell do Administrators justify that? We were scheduled for new textbooks twice and both times, we were denied the texts in favor of academic class needs. I'd wager the football team never went without helmets!

Summed up, I ran that program out of my pocket for years. If you ever doubted that teachers have to buy supplies out of their own pay, you got the straight story here!

Flash

 

[TexasRedneck]

Amen on THAT, Flash! Our average annual expenditure for school-specific supplies easily averages $2500/yr - and that does NOT include the printers/PC at the house, nor the Apple we bought for the wife to use, which is upgraded every 2-3 years. An' while anything I buy for MY business use is deductible, HER classroom expenses are capped at a whole $250/yr.

 

[Hawghauler]

I started this thread nwith the intent to incite passion and I have not been disappointed. Teaching youth by itself is not tough. On average I am firmly convinced the average teacher is well compensated for the actual hours worked. Every woe I heard has nothing to do with the science and art of teaching. What I hear is the socialist government is training a bunch of undisciplined useful idiots to further their agenda of creating a government dependent class. I did see any parochial school teacher comments here and either there aren't any here or surprise of all surprises they don't have these issues. Islam creates a class of useful idiots that can be swayed to perform acts that defy even a modicrum of logic. Dare I say the teachers unions and the government did a "copy/paste" ? Imagine a world where students came to learn for 8 hours and were required to behave with dignity, respect, and morals. Imagine poor behavior got you expelled and failing grades held you back. Imagine Johnny giving Jimmy a bloody nose for the "your mother wears combat boots insult" and police and lawyers were NOT called and the boys sorted it out. $30.00 an hour for the joy of working there would be lavish excess. I don't have to imagine it, that was my school. To me the US government has FAILED their obligation and should be fired from the job. The community that funds education should choose the rules, teachers, and ciriculum and those that don't like can choose the community that conforms to their beliefs. The end result I suppose would be the same, a bunch of smart conservatives and a bunch of dumb unruly liberals.

 

[TexasRedneck]

So, in other words you were trolling, eh? Okay - fine. Ya got me. It's the LAST time you will.

It's obvious you've read/considered NOTHING that's been posted by those of us with direct knowledge of the subject at hand. Instead, you're doing the old "Don't tell me the facts - I've already established them!" 'tude so many liberals and neo's exhibit.

BTW - it's not the GOVERNMENT's responsibility to educate your kids - it's YOURS. So take back YOUR district, run it YOUR way - and good luck finding quality teachers willing to teach to your standards....even the dumb ones you lament will know better - and the smart ones you claim to want/appreciate will tell you where to stick the job.


Have a nice life.

 

[Hawghauler]

Schools and teachers are a topic I have made my mind up on. 4 kids put through schools. Crippled by school taxes all my working life. School teacher are not the only ones with direct knowledge. Parents and taxpayers are also great sources of direct experience. I am not impressed with the union, the average teachers I have met, the administrations, the average student traversing the grades, and the cirriculums presented. I attended every school board meeting I could and did locally influence some change in a few classes. Government paid union owned teachers do have the responsibilty to educate the children in their class rooms, that what the parents are paying them for. Good teachers are not hard to find, I have seen them in the military and seen them in the public and private schools, and they are very ordinary people without special powers or secret handshake. They just are ordinary people who care. Nothing wrong with ordinary people as I rank myself among them. The unions the teachers belong to provide protection from removal for all but the most serious offense and I rarely hear or see teachers standing against the union. Our schools are a den of indoctrination and I would like to take back the schools from the public trough. I would also like to see teachers want to take back the schools if the situations are as violent and dire as depicted here. Every teachers strike (always during the working school year) I have ever seen or read about has been for more money and benefits. I have never heard of a strike for better cirriculum or stricter rules for student discipline (there may have been some). Good debate here. I am not trying to imply that all teachers are bad, certainly there are some that disagree with the current state of our education and do their best to teach in spite of the obstacles. Talking against public schools, education, and teachers is almost a forbidden subject. You can make fun of motor vehicles dept all you want, but leave the schools out of it. You can speak out against Christianity and country, but leave the schools out of it. Perhaps that is how we have been schooled to respond.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Hawghawler, I don't know where you're from, but there has NEVER been a teachers' strike in Texas. Period.
If you want to have an educated debate, that's fine - but all you do is toss out a wide net, make stupid accusations, then act surprised when folks that UNDERSTAND take your head off. Like anything else - there's always a seed of truth in the rantings of an activist - but they rarely REALLY understand the subject matter they're spouting off about.
And teachers ARE special people, my friend - they HAVE to be because they have to put up with BS from every direction - even from folks that have no freakin' idea as to what is going on. There has been NO debate here, because you haven't asked questions - you toss a bomb and then ignore the responses.

I'm DONE with this because you don't WANT to learn anything - you already know it all, and nothing is going to change your mind. And we call liberals closed-minded.....

 

[Shorts]

On average I am firmly convinced the average teacher is well compensated for the actual hours worked.

If I didn't laugh at that I'd rant.

My teacher Mom is a parent too. They did pay taxes. They did go to meetings. They do know what "parents" go through to put kids through school. And all three of us were multiple sport athletes who graduated with honors in what is considered a competitive school. There was a lot of money and travel involved raising us. My parents struggled too.

It seems like you've made being a teacher and being a parent exclusive of each other. In our case my parents had us attending a GOOD school and drove 45min each way to teach at a different school in the district.

You are not the only one that sees how the education system works. Continually blaming teachers for speaking out against the crap they take is off the mark. It also seems that you're separating "good teachers" into a group that is fantastically satisfied about the way the system is. Further it seems that you're implying only "bad teachers" speak out or join the unions for help.

You want teachers to do more with less to the point of burdening themselves financially, emotionally and physically. Then you want them to be happy about it

That's wrong.

 

[Texas42]

I think teachers, usually, get paid enough to teach. It is still a government job and not going to be compensated as well as private sector jobs.

I DON'T think they get paid enough play babysitter arrogant and unruly POS that our society (and administrators) seem to tolerate and to finance the education of their students. It is rediculous, but it is very common.

I think our society puts too much emphesis in educational certificates (HS diploma, Bachelors, masters, doctorate ect) as opposed to knowledge and wisdom. Sure many professions require a high degree of education and skill (MD's for example), but they learn most by doing. I think I'll understand medicine much better next year when I stop my didactic training and start practising medicine in the hospital. Most teaching MD's will tell you that grades have NO correlation on how good well an MD practises medicine.

I'm just saying that we work too hard keep kids in the education system when they have no desire or inclination to say there. There are plenty of kids that can't read as it is, I don't think making them learn lessions in the real world will hurt them at all.

I know relationship between professor and student is different than teacher and student, but I think that is part of the problem. Most professors have a lot more power in how they conduct their class (aka dealing with problem students) and the students don't have to be in college. There is no reason that a POS student has to be in HS either.

 

[Hawghauler]

Redneck, I have posted this as a rant. I am close minded on public schools. I am looking to change your mind, not vice versa.

 

[ROGER4314]

Good teachers are not hard to find, I have seen them in the military and seen them in the public and private schools, and they are very ordinary people without special powers or secret handshake. They just are ordinary people who care. Nothing wrong with ordinary people as I rank myself among them.
=============================================================

I went back and read the whole thread and I believe we did this incorrectly. The teachers were criticized then teachers and families of teachers went on the defensive stating how rotten the job really is. It turned out to be an example of "he said, she said."

Let's do this differently. There is a nationwide teacher shortage. Some districts like Wichita, Kansas say that is no longer the case. I doubt that as certification requirements are being reduced, student loans are being forgiven, finders fees and longevity pay are still offered to get people to enter into and stay in teaching fields.

OK.....Here's the challenge. On Monday morning, drag your butt to the local school district administrative office and apply for a job in a critical need area on an emergency certificate. You must have a clean record and must work on certification college hours on your own time and at your expense but you can start teaching this year.

If you think the job of teaching is so lucrative, duties are easy, hours are wonderful, benefits great, then get after it. I dare you! You guys shot your mouths off now accept my challenge or eat crow.

I guarantee that you will not make it beyond your third year of teaching. Keep blowing hot air or do something about it!.............. I dare you!

I've been there, done that and you don't have the hair on your butt to make it in the teaching profession. Go ahead and try................ or keep whining!

Flash

 

[Shorts]

^^ That's a trick! Don't fall for it!

You'll probably get the position you applied for. A week into it the principal will come to do and dump more on you in the form of another class or more students...collateral duties as they seem them.

Mom is currently subbing now. I hear how her days go.




On the subject of money, what figures do you guys have in mind as being "average figures" for being a teacher. I'm curious. I know its impoliteto talk religion, politics or money, but since this is a rant category...

 

[texas_teacher]

You want teachers to do more with less to the point of burdening themselves financially, emotionally and physically. Then you want them to be happy about it

That's wrong.

They will be happy about it but you'll lose teachers to retirement and other jobs way before their time when they get burnt out...

Is that what we want in this country?

A industry full of teachers that are doing enough to get by and stay sane?

 

[DCortez]

I'd guess 45-60k, depending on subject, bilingual abilities, and years.

On that, I was recently told that there are 65 languages spoken in the Greater Houston area ISD's but only one foreign language is catered to. Wonder why we insist on handicapping my fellow Hispanics. Closet racism?

 

[Texas42]

I always thought that they started at mid-40's and went up from their with education certifications and years in education.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Redneck, I have posted this as a rant. I am close minded on public schools. I am looking to change your mind, not vice versa.

In other words, you're too close-minded to find out how you might be wrong, eh?

You related to Al Gore?

 

[texas_teacher]

in other words, you're too close-minded to find out how you might be wrong, eh?

You related to al gore?

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!

 

[Hawghauler]

I'll stick to what I know as fact and will not name call. I'll consider the facts when I read them. The teaching industry is governemnt paid. I think most belong to a union, and literacy in our country has been falling for years. I am not correct to imply all teachers are overpaid, I am sure many are paid what they are worth, and many are under paid. That is true of every profession. As I grew up on a street with two schools I know the hours a teacher works are not oppressive and after a few years when a teacher has their classroom material established the work does become repetitive. My children were 9 years apart and the projects and tests were little changed from year to year. I am from the north and union teacher strikes were common and I have heard many of the arguments for more pay. That I am not against if the pay was performance based but the unions do not want that. There are too many agendas being force fed in schools and the teachers are doing it. I have seen posts here where teachers are having their charges pledge to Obama. Striking a nerve about pay is not a surprise, but a teacher's annual salary for the actual hours worked do not compare with most professions that work 40+ hours a week every year with the exception of earned vacation days which on average are between 10-20. When I factored the hours for teacher pay I based it up the industry average for all teachers and I built in an assumption that a teacher works every work day in 10 months. Those with kids know that is not the case. There are many fields that pay more than teaching but those are usually in the private sector and are performance based. Anyone dissatisfied with their income need to consider those opportunities. Those individuals who want to take an even bigger risk for the pursuit of greater financial reward can open a business and strive for wealth. Small business people are the bravest of folks and the very backbone of our economy. (I am not a small business owner). When I challenged school budgets and cirriculum in the board meetings I heard it all from the administrators and teachers. Every time we did not vote in a budget increase we were threatened with closing up all sports. If we did not increase taxes we were told we would get decreased service. We the earning public did not always have increased income to pay increased tax. I know what the strikes were always for. I'll listen to facts guys.

 

[ROGER4314]

You think the job of teaching is lucrative, duties are easy, hours are wonderful, benefits great so..... get after it. I dare you to become a teacher!

I taught for 22 years. Let's see what YOU have. Just march right in there and tell them how you're going to improve the system!

Time for sign up to become a teacher is approaching on Monday morning. Ask for an emergency certificate in a critical need area. You can probably start in January. They need teachers and they'll accept you if you have a clean record and can pass a drug and background check.

You said it was an easy job now back it up.........become a teacher........save education............... I dare you!

Most teachers burn up in three years. In three years, (if you're still a teacher), we'll revisit this discussion.

Flash

 

[DCortez]

Most teachers burn up in three years. In three years, (if you're still a teacher), we'll revisit this discussion.

:sign0101:

I laugh every time I hear Bill O'Reilly spouting off "I know about education, I was a teacher for two years".

 

[TexasRedneck]

So, hawghawler...when are you goin' to apply? C'mon big'un - show us ALL how easy it is! Show everyone that you got what it takes - because frankly, you know NOTHING - and as you already stated, you don't WANT to know anything - because you've already made up your mind. Oh, wait - now you say you're willing to listen to facts. Which is it?!??

but a teacher's annual salary for the actual hours worked do not compare with most professions that work 40+ hours a week every year

THIS is probably the most ignorant and biased statement you made - by far. It's obvious you know NOTHING of the teaching profession. Oh, wait - you're from up north......retired and moved here.....now you want to present us with your biased "facts". Sorry - go back up to the wonderful north. We don't like closed-minded bigots here. That's like going into a grocery store and announcing "I'm the new manager - I used to manage a hotel, so I already know everything I need to run this". Many of us here have cited the actual hours that either we or our spouses put it - and it's very obvious you haven't bothered to read it. I ain't gonna repeat myself - I tried to discuss it, and you flat said your mind was made up - so from this point on, I'm gonna insult you every time you spew some BS stupid, ignorant comment - because you've already stated you know it all.

Oh, chit.....I just looked....Idaho?!?!? Yankee STAY HOME.