Slide fire stocks for SHTF situations?

[IXLR8]

I'm sensing a consensus here ;>).

This, unless World War Z was a reality

 

[Robb in Austin]

While I tend to agree with the consensus, I can see where this might be useful in a SHTF situation. Ever see videos on You Tube of crowds when shooting starts? People run the other way.

Picture yourself in a situation like New Orleans a few years ago. Stuck at home trying to protect you and yours. Because you're better prepared, a group of people want what you have. The cops aren't coming. They rush your house.

If you shoot the first one, they might stop. If you 'spray and pray' I'm pretty sure they will all scatter whether you hit them or not.

Will it stop a coordinated effort, or something from the cops or military? Nope. But that's a whole other situation.

 

[F350-6]

Suppressive fire is a great thing if you've got a belt fed fully auto and an A-gunner to keep the belts linked. Also works great as part of a team firing semi-auto.

If a whole bunch of people are charging at you in some SHTF scenario, then every shot must count. Missing the target at a faster rate with more rounds by bump firing won't help you any.

I think both the AR and AK platform are capable of firing SA as quickly as you can get sights on target anyway. Anything faster than that and you're just throwing rounds down range and having to change magazines quicker.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Suppressive fire is a great thing if you've got a belt fed fully auto and an A-gunner to keep the belts linked. Also works great as part of a team firing semi-auto.

If a whole bunch of people are charging at you in some SHTF scenario, then every shot must count. Missing the target at a faster rate with more rounds by bump firing won't help you any.

I think both the AR and AK platform are capable of firing SA as quickly as you can get sights on target anyway. Anything faster than that and you're just throwing rounds down range and having to change magazines quicker.

Ah Ha, FINALLY someone who know what the hell he is talking about.

Having spent a little time in situations where auto fire was used here is how it went down:

You are on patrol, point man has his AR and a pump shotgun (if terrain calls for it) There are 2 guys behind him. One fires to the his left the other fires to his right, their job when we make contact is to unload a couple of mags giving the folks behind them to opportunity to find cover and concealment, identify enemy locations and begin to return timely and accurate fire.

FA is very effective for getting the enemy to get their heads down. Its effect lasts about 15 seconds max after that its the guys who are shooting to kill. And those 2 guys behind the point man, after those 3 mags are spent, the slam home another one and go hunting for the bad guys, one shot at a time.

FA has not been effective on the battlefield since Korea. The old charge'um command is long gone and waves of bad guys are no longer in use. At the individual weapon level semi auto is far more effective. Get into the crew served weapons such as the Quad 50 and vehicle mounted weaponry they depend upon volume of rds down range to suppress enemy actions, but even then the death toll is very low for the amount of rds expended. But as the Marine can probally tell you there is nothing like the sound of airborne gatling guns to force the enemy to crawl into a bean can, thus giving me the time needed to drive a wedge between his greasy eyeballs, THANKS CAS...

Take away: If you believe that slide or bump fire or anything else is going to save your ass when the SHTF then you are betting on the wrong horse in the race, maybe you saw WW "Z" to many times....

 

[Glocktastic]

I wouldn't have one for a SHTF situation. Having shot one I can tell you that they are very inaccurate.

 

[Andy]

Only time I used full-auto in Iraq was with a belt-fed SAW or PKM - our AKs were full-auto capable but we never used anything but semi-auto; we didn't need anything faster than (at most) a very controlled 2 or 3 shots per second.

 

[macshooter]

I wouldn't have one for a SHTF situation. Having shot one I can tell you that they are very inaccurate.

Ridiculous.

 

[F350-6]

Ridiculous.

Seriously? You think it's accurate based on that video? I've fired full auto from the little .223 up to the Mark 19 (look it up). I would take on this fool with a semi auto any day of the week in a real combat scenario. Go to 8:22 in that video where he talks about being at a reasonable range for full auto. 15 yards.

If you've let them get that close to you, it's too late for full auto. You should be out of ammunition anyway when they're that close and either grabbing your pistol of fixing a bayonet. At 15 yards with a long gun you should be pulling the rifle back behind your head and getting ready to swing it like it's a baseball bat. At 100, 200, 300, 400 yards, fully auto is nice. Of course it's inaccurate as heck unless tripod mounted and belt fed where you can walk the ammo into the target. Look up the cyclic rate of the AR-15 and do the math of how many seconds of bump fire you'll get trying to walk the rounds on target.

Even when they switched the M16-A1 fully auto to the M16-A2 with the 3 round burst, it was obvious that you couldn't reliably keep the 3 rounds on target at any decent range.

But then again, what do I know. Since it is on youtube, it must be true.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Seriously? You think it's accurate based on that video? I've fired full auto from the little .223 up to the Mark 19 (look it up). I would take on this fool with a semi auto any day of the week in a real combat scenario. Go to 8:22 in that video where he talks about being at a reasonable range for full auto. 15 yards.

If you've let them get that close to you, it's too late for full auto. You should be out of ammunition anyway when they're that close and either grabbing your pistol of fixing a bayonet. At 15 yards with a long gun you should be pulling the rifle back behind your head and getting ready to swing it like it's a baseball bat. At 100, 200, 300, 400 yards, fully auto is nice. Of course it's inaccurate as heck unless tripod mounted and belt fed where you can walk the ammo into the target. Look up the cyclic rate of the AR-15 and do the math of how many seconds of bump fire you'll get trying to walk the rounds on target.

Even when they switched the M16-A1 fully auto to the M16-A2 with the 3 round burst, it was obvious that you couldn't reliably keep the 3 rounds on target at any decent range.

But then again, what do I know. Since it is on youtube, it must be true.

Gosh dang, there you go again Marine, making sense and talking reality. Like you said anytime you can develop any accuracy in FA is when you are working out with a crew served belt-fed and you use the tracers to walk in on target.

Yea it was fun (the first few times) I did some blasting away on rock n roll with an assortment of stuff in the Army inventory. But when it came down to rubber meets the ground vs OPFOR its semi-auto every time...FA is for 'mad minutes' at about 0200 just to keep the bad guy awake...Of course I never faced swarming hordes of Zombies...ROFLMAO

 

[Texan2]

Since it is on youtube, it must be true.

Duh, everybody knows that.

 

[Robb in Austin]

Just to play devil's advocate, yall are talking about combat situations which are totally different than a SHTF scenario.

If your neighbors are coming at you, a full mag dump is going to keep the vast majority away. (At least the first time.) Once it gets organized, I'll go towards controlled shot placement.

 

[F350-6]

Just to play devil's advocate, yall are talking about combat situations which are totally different than a SHTF scenario.

If your neighbors are coming at you, a full mag dump is going to keep the vast majority away. (At least the first time.) Once it gets organized, I'll go towards controlled shot placement.

OK, I'll play along. Explain to me how missing someone (or several someones) and ending up with an empty mag is going to help me? Might as well just put up a no trespassing sign and call it good.

The only way to stop an incoming threat is with rounds on target. One hit counts for more than 30 misses, otherwise we'd all be shooting blanks.

 

[Robb in Austin]

Go back to my original remark. See videos on YT of crowds when shots are fired. They scatter.

Again, this does not apply to organized resistance. IMO, only to your neighbors coming after your goods. At least initially.

And again, I agree with the consensus; in general this is a bad idea. But, I can see where it _could_ be useful. I wouldn't rely on it as the be all end all. Frankly, in a SHTF scenario; it's either GTFO(assuming you have enough warning and forethought to do that) and/or Katy bar the door and pray you can overcome the hordes.

 

[cconn]

OK, I'll play along. Explain to me how missing someone (or several someones) and ending up with an empty mag is going to help me? Might as well just put up a no trespassing sign and call it good.

The only way to stop an incoming threat is with rounds on target. One hit counts for more than 30 misses, otherwise we'd all be shooting blanks.

Maybe the best option would be a compromise? I will start carrying two rifles for EOTWAWKI situations. One with a slide fire and loaded with blanks to scare the piss out of them, and the other a normal semi-auto for accurate hits on target. Best of both worlds see?

 

[Robb in Austin]

Maybe the best option would be a compromise? I will start carrying two rifles for EOTWAWKI situations. One with a slide fire and loaded with blanks to scare the piss out of them, and the other a normal semi-auto for accurate hits on target. Best of both worlds see?

I like this. Firecrackers might have the same effect.

 

[macshooter]

Oh were we comparing the accuracy of full-auto fire to aimed semi-auto fire, and to mounted crew served / belt-fed heavy machineguns to a carbine with a bumpstock? I stand corrected! SMH

If you think putting down a volume of fire might be a good thing in certain situations, the slidefire is as good as it gets unless you got $20K+ to spend on the real thing.

To the OP, bottomline, it's worth it for the fun alone. Whether or not it has any practical benefit to you is something you'll have to decide for yourself. But I think you will like it.

 

[DubiousDan]

OK, I'll play along. Explain to me how missing someone (or several someones) and ending up with an empty mag is going to help me? Might as well just put up a no trespassing sign and call it good.

You'll have less ammo (weight) to carry so you'll be able to move faster.

 

[Andy]

People scatter when only a couple of shots are fired; a full mag-dump isn't even close to being necessary.

Tell you a true story from Iraq. I was off PSD duties for a day and we alternated a few hours between zooming through the desert around our little base looking for trouble or keeping overwatch at the main gate. I happened to be in the sangar by the gate when a small crowd of Iraqi construction workers came our way, very hot under the collar, so our translator went out to find out what was going on. Seemed as if the boys hadn't been paid and they were threatening to rush the gate, apparently figuring our sensitivity for "human rights" would keep us from shooting unarmed men.

I settled myself behind the PKM belt-fed and told the translator that I'm not real good with machineguns (not true - I'm pretty damn skilled) but that I reckoned I might be able to hit only the two making most of the fuss. The fellers backing up those two yanked them back pretty damn quick and they decided to bugger off back down the road.

Peace through superior firepower, without a shot needing to be fired

 

[556.45.12]

Slide fire stocks are a horrible invention. They have extremely limited use, make your gun ugly as hell, and cost as much as a whole separate new gun. You can bumpfire most semi-auto rifles easily with a little practice. No need for a $300-400 doodad to do it for you.

 

[F350-6]

Slide fire stocks are a horrible invention. They have extremely limited use, make your gun ugly as hell, and cost as much as a whole separate new gun. You can bumpfire most semi-auto rifles easily with a little practice. No need for a $300-400 doodad to do it for you.

Slide fire stocks are a stupidly simple invention that is brilliant. I wish I would have thought of it. Give those with money a way to fire what to them feels like a machine gun by making a piece to do something as simple as bump fire a weapon.

Dang I wish I had thought of that. Those guys / gals should be very well off by now I would guess.