Slide Retraction Effort on a Walther CCP 9MM M2

[Cityboy]

Does anybody know what the slide retraction effort is on a Walther CCP 9MM M2? Walther advertises it as being easy to retract, but it doesn't seem any easier than recoil-operated compact 9mm pistols to me.

Thanks in advance for any input,

Cityboy

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Didn't get an answer in your other thread?

Slide Retraction Effort of the Walther CCP M2 in 9MM

Does anybody have an accurate read on the slide retraction effort on the Walther CCP M2 in 9MM? A Walther rep told me that it was 16.4 lbs, but that sounds kinda heavy to me, considering that it uses a gas-retarded blowback system. I know that there are some other 9mm pistols that are...

www.texasguntalk.com

 

[Cityboy]

Didn't get an answer in your other thread?

Slide Retraction Effort of the Walther CCP M2 in 9MM

Does anybody have an accurate read on the slide retraction effort on the Walther CCP M2 in 9MM? A Walther rep told me that it was 16.4 lbs, but that sounds kinda heavy to me, considering that it uses a gas-retarded blowback system. I know that there are some other 9mm pistols that are...

www.texasguntalk.com

Yes, I did, but Walther's answer was different from Umarex's, who builds the gun for Walther. Umarex stated 12.8 lbs to full rearward position, whereas a Walther rep stated 16.4. The first 2/3 - 3/4 of the travel is relatively light, then it "stacks" and is noticeably heavier for the rest of the travel. I use the "push/pull" method to rack the slide, but when I get the point were it starts to stack, it almost feels like that's the end of the travel because the resistance increases so much. And, if you stop at that point, the striker is not cocked.
S&W told me that the slide retraction effort on the 9MM Shield EZ is 13 lbs, but it feels a good deal lighter than the effort on the Walther. May just trade it for an EZ.

Thanks for the reply

 

[leVieux]

Yes, I did, but Walther's answer was different from Umarex's, who builds the gun for Walther. Umarex stated 12.8 lbs to full rearward position, whereas a Walther rep stated 16.4. The first 2/3 - 3/4 of the travel is relatively light, then it "stacks" and is noticeably heavier for the rest of the travel. I use the "push/pull" method to rack the slide, but when I get the point were it starts to stack, it almost feels like that's the end of the travel because the resistance increases so much. And, if you stop at that point, the striker is not cocked.
S&W told me that the slide retraction effort on the 9MM Shield EZ is 13 lbs, but it feels a good deal lighter than the effort on the Walther. May just trade it for an EZ.

Thanks for the reply

But, please tell us; is this an actual issue for you or your Family? As elder Americans, Wife & I both have arthritis of hands & wrists, causing increasing difficulty with various semi-auto's. So far, I haven't been unable to work any of them, but Bride is approaching that point now. Since we are living in a much less dangerous place then the big cities, we are considering going back to revolvers. That is also making those revolver caliber lever guns look better-&-better, b/c of ability to share ammo. Please keep posting your findings on here. In Houston, two near neighbors were butchered by home invaders; and, over here, an old schoolmate was bludgeoned to death by home invaders. We live out in the country and hear about all the bad stuff from our ATF Detective Son. leVieux

 

[Cityboy]

But, please tell us; is this an actual issue for you or your Family? As elder Americans, Wife & I both have arthritis of hands & wrists, causing increasing difficulty with various semi-auto's. So far, I haven't been unable to work any of them, but Bride is approaching that point now. Since we are living in a much less dangerous place then the big cities, we are considering going back to revolvers. That is also making those revolver caliber lever guns look better-&-better, b/c of ability to share ammo. Please keep posting your findings on here. In Houston, two near neighbors were butchered by home invaders; and, over here, an old schoolmate was bludgeoned to death by home invaders. We live out in the country and hear about all the bad stuff from our ATF Detective Son. leVieux

I've tried both the S&W M&P 9MM EZ and .380 ACP EZ. Of course, the .380 is easier than the 9MM, but, as I said in the previous post, the 9MM EZ is easier than the Walther CCP 9MM.
If I don't buy a S&W EZ, I may go back to revolvers. There's a lot to be said for their reliability and simplicity. Some people complain that revolver triggers are too hard to pull, but the Ruger LCR isn't bad at all and my Taurus 865 is not too bad, either. I think that practicing the trigger pull on a revolver will build up your finger strength to where it won't be a problem.
Please let me know what you decide to do.

Cityboy

 

[leVieux]

I've tried both the S&W M&P 9MM EZ and .380 ACP EZ. Of course, the .380 is easier than the 9MM, but, as I said in the previous post, the 9MM EZ is easier than the Walther CCP 9MM.
If I don't buy a S&W EZ, I may go back to revolvers. There's a lot to be said for their reliability and simplicity. Some people complain that revolver triggers are too hard to pull, but the Ruger LCR isn't bad at all and my Taurus 865 is not too bad, either. I think that practicing the trigger pull on a revolver will build up your finger strength to where it won't be a problem.
Please let me know what you decide to do.

Cityboy

We have several choices available. Recently went from .45ACP's to 9mm G19's, with a Ruger PCC using the same mags. It'll probably be a couple years before our "hand is forced" to do something. As it is now, I must use pliers to open milk cartons. leVieux

 

[308nato]

My wife has trouble with the slid on the 1911 so I got some new recoil springs
at 9,10 and 11 lbs to see if she can rack the slide easyer.
Also got some recoil buffers to install from Buffer Technologies so as not to damage the slide
from the lighter springs.
Just trying to find time to hit the range.
Also thinking about a revolver for her also.

 

[Cityboy]

We have several choices available. Recently went from .45ACP's to 9mm G19's, with a Ruger PCC using the same mags. It'll probably be a couple years before our "hand is forced" to do something. As it is now, I must use pliers to open milk cartons. leVieux

I'm OK with milk cartons--so far--but if I'm not careful when drawing or holstering my pistol that I hold it perfectly straight or I sprain my wrist. Don't know if anybody else has that problem.
I'm going to try out the S&W EZ next time I have a chance and see if that's the way for me to go. Will probably also try a couple of revolvers.

Cityboy

 

[Cityboy]

My wife has trouble with the slid on the 1911 so I got some new recoil springs
at 9,10 and 11 lbs to see if she can rack the slide easyer.
Also got some recoil buffers to install from Buffer Technologies so as not to damage the slide
from the lighter springs.
Just trying to find time to hit the range.
Also thinking about a revolver for her also.

Yeah, as I posted before, revolvers have advantages--simplicity and reliability. The disadvantages are low ammo capacity and slow reloads, but maybe the "New York Reload", i.e., carry a second gun is the best way to solve those problems.

 

[zackmars]

Yeah, as I posted before, revolvers have advantages--simplicity and reliability. The disadvantages are low ammo capacity and slow reloads, but maybe the "New York Reload", i.e., carry a second gun is the best way to solve those problems.

Revolvers are not particularly simple, or reliable.

DA/SA revolvers have very complex actions. Lots of screws, lots of hand fit parts, lots to go wrong.

Revolvers ARE very ammo tolerant, but that doesn't really translate to reliability, you have to keep revolvers very clean, and they don't do well if you treat it poorly.

I would look very closely at the S&W EZ, they are great guns. Chances are if a slide is too much, a hammer or stock DA trigger will be to much as well.

 

[Cityboy]

Revolvers are not particularly simple, or reliable.

DA/SA revolvers have very complex actions. Lots of screws, lots of hand fit parts, lots to go wrong.

Revolvers ARE very ammo tolerant, but that doesn't really translate to reliability, you have to keep revolvers very clean, and they don't do well if you treat it poorly.

I would look very closely at the S&W EZ, they are great guns. Chances are if a slide is too much, a hammer or stock DA trigger will be to much as well.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. As long as you maintain a revolver properly and use good ammo, they are about as reliable as any firearm can be. Semi-autos, on the other hand, will fail to function if a cartridge is too short or too long, if your gun doesn't "like" the bullet profile, if you accidentally engage the thumb safety or slide lock, if the slide rails are inadequately lubricated, and probably a couple of other reasons I can't think of at the moment. I've never had a revolver fail as long as I maintained it properly and "fed" it good ammunition. On the other hand, I've had every semi-auto I've ever owned fail at one time or another for one reason or another.
Yep, I'm going to give the S&W EZ a very close look and will probably buy one if they suit my hands (small) well.

Cityboy

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't understand the logic of "I can't work the slide on an automatic, I'm going to a DA revolver" - typical DA revolver has a 10-14lb trigger pull unless you get a trigger job done.

Full size guns have lighter recoil springs than compact guns, and then there are the EZ models from S&W.

There are also devices that assist in slide racking - I think one is called the "Handi-Racker" - that adds surface/grip texture to a slide, then there are the loop styles that replace the backplate on striker fired guns like Glocks.

Your grip strength is required to pull a trigger - and if your whole hand has issues with a 14lb recoil spring, I just can't see how pulling a 10-14lb trigger with one finger is going to be easier. Revolvers are also a bit snappier than automatics because there are no springs to buffer the recoil forces. If you have wrist issues, it seems a revolver would be worse in that regard as well.

 

[leVieux]

Revolvers are not particularly simple, or reliable.

DA/SA revolvers have very complex actions. Lots of screws, lots of hand fit parts, lots to go wrong.

Revolvers ARE very ammo tolerant, but that doesn't really translate to reliability, you have to keep revolvers very clean, and they don't do well if you treat it poorly.

I would look very closely at the S&W EZ, they are great guns. Chances are if a slide is too much, a hammer or stock DA trigger will be to much as well.

"Revolvers are not particularly simple, or reliable."

Well, in actual practice they are both very simple and extremely reliable.

As is often said about the Smith "J-frames"; "It WILL go bang!"

In the 50 years I've owned a Python, it has NEVER failed at anything. Period !

During that time, I've had all sorts of problems with Kimber, GLOCK, etc.

Strangely, the only others to NEVER cause me a problem are the Taurus' & the J-frames.

leVieux

 

[leVieux]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. As long as you maintain a revolver properly and use good ammo, they are about as reliable as any firearm can be. Semi-autos, on the other hand, will fail to function if a cartridge is too short or too long, if your gun doesn't "like" the bullet profile, if you accidentally engage the thumb safety or slide lock, if the slide rails are inadequately lubricated, and probably a couple of other reasons I can't think of at the moment. I've never had a revolver fail as long as I maintained it properly and "fed" it good ammunition. On the other hand, I've had every semi-auto I've ever owned fail at one time or another for one reason or another.
Yep, I'm going to give the S&W EZ a very close look and will probably buy one if they suit my hands (small) well.

Cityboy

"EXACKERLY" !

 

[Cityboy]

I don't understand the logic of "I can't work the slide on an automatic, I'm going to a DA revolver" - typical DA revolver has a 10-14lb trigger pull unless you get a trigger job done.

Full size guns have lighter recoil springs than compact guns, and then there are the EZ models from S&W.

There are also devices that assist in slide racking - I think one is called the "Handi-Racker" - that adds surface/grip texture to a slide, then there are the loop styles that replace the backplate on striker fired guns like Glocks.

Your grip strength is required to pull a trigger - and if your whole hand has issues with a 14lb recoil spring, I just can't see how pulling a 10-14lb trigger with one finger is going to be easier. Revolvers are also a bit snappier than automatics because there are no springs to buffer the recoil forces. If you have wrist issues, it seems a revolver would be worse in that regard as well.

My grip strength is not the problem in racking a slide. I grip the "handle" with my strong hand and retract the slide with my "weak" hand, which is actually significantly less strong than my strong hand. So I really have to concentrate to exert as much pressure as possible with my weak hand when trying to rack a slide, and despite concentrating as hard as I can, it's still difficult.
I do (did--don't have one now) have trouble pulling the trigger on a S&W J-frame, but the trigger on a Ruger LCR is a lot easier and, as a matter of fact, I have no trouble pulling the trigger on my Taurus 865.

Cityboy

 

[Sasquatch]

My grip strength is not the problem in racking a slide. I grip the "handle" with my strong hand and retract the slide with my "weak" hand, which is actually significantly less strong than my strong hand. So I really have to concentrate to exert as much pressure as possible with my weak hand when trying to rack a slide, and despite concentrating as hard as I can, it's still difficult.
I do (did--don't have one now) have trouble pulling the trigger on a S&W J-frame, but the trigger on a Ruger LCR is a lot easier and, as a matter of fact, I have no trouble pulling the trigger on my Taurus 865.

Cityboy

Question - have you tried reversing the hands you use for racking a semi-auto? Use the strong hand to grip the slide, and use the weak hand to just hold the gun? A number of guns now have ambi-controls so you can engage / release the slide stop from both sides. Maybe grasping the slide with the strong hand and pushing with the weaker arm would make the process easier for you.

 

[zackmars]

"Revolvers are not particularly simple, or reliable."

Well, in actual practice they are both very simple and extremely reliable.

As is often said about the Smith "J-frames"; "It WILL go bang!"

In the 50 years I've owned a Python, it has NEVER failed at anything. Period !

During that time, I've had all sorts of problems with Kimber, GLOCK, etc.

Strangely, the only others to NEVER cause me a problem are the Taurus' & the J-frames.

leVieux

They are absolutely in no way shape or form, simple

Each one of those parts you see requires some degree of hand fitting, and i can tell you from personal experience even older S&W's from the 60's and 70's are not particularly impressive examples of machining or fitting

I've shot quite a bit through autos and revolvers. I've had malfunctions with both.

Semis never had a problem that wasn't cured with racking the slide. Revolvers, however, have had to take trips back to the factory, or have required me to detail strip the gun, or use something like a pencil to get a stuck case out.

I love revolvers, don't get me wrong, my favorite handgun is my 66 no dash, but the day of revolvers has passed

 

[zackmars]

My grip strength is not the problem in racking a slide. I grip the "handle" with my strong hand and retract the slide with my "weak" hand, which is actually significantly less strong than my strong hand. So I really have to concentrate to exert as much pressure as possible with my weak hand when trying to rack a slide, and despite concentrating as hard as I can, it's still difficult.
I do (did--don't have one now) have trouble pulling the trigger on a S&W J-frame, but the trigger on a Ruger LCR is a lot easier and, as a matter of fact, I have no trouble pulling the trigger on my Taurus 865.

Cityboy

This technique works well for people who might not have great strength

 

[mroper]

Here is something to consider. You only rack the Slide when loading an empty gun and there are methods and aids to do that. Every Semi I own I can just use the slide lock release when changing mags. However pulling the trigger on a D/A revolver is every time.

 

[Cityboy]

They are absolutely in no way shape or form, simple
View attachment 299929
Each one of those parts you see requires some degree of hand fitting, and i can tell you from personal experience even older S&W's from the 60's and 70's are not particularly impressive examples of machining or fitting

I've shot quite a bit through autos and revolvers. I've had malfunctions with both.

Semis never had a problem that wasn't cured with racking the slide. Revolvers, however, have had to take trips back to the factory, or have required me to detail strip the gun, or use something like a pencil to get a stuck case out.

I love revolvers, don't get me wrong, my favorite handgun is my 66 no dash, but the day of revolvers has passed

They are absolutely in no way shape or form, simple
View attachment 299929
Each one of those parts you see requires some degree of hand fitting, and i can tell you from personal experience even older S&W's from the 60's and 70's are not particularly impressive examples of machining or fitting

I've shot quite a bit through autos and revolvers. I've had malfunctions with both.

Semis never had a problem that wasn't cured with racking the slide. Revolvers, however, have had to take trips back to the factory, or have required me to detail strip the gun, or use something like a pencil to get a stuck case out.

I love revolvers, don't get me wrong, my favorite handgun is my 66 no dash, but the day of revolvers has passed

I agree that revolvers are not simple--lots of parts and pieces that have to work correctly every time. However, I've had failures with a revolver only twice (in 45 years of shooting them)--and both times were my fault. One time I left oil under the extractor and unburned powder flakes stuck to it, built up, and raised the extractor so high that the cylinder wouldn't revolve. Another time I reloaded some .38 Special and didn't seat the primers deeply enough. So, of course, they dragged on the recoil shield and the cylinder wouldn't revolve.
On the other hand, every semi-auto I've ever owned (and I've owned lots of them) has failed at least once. They were all maintained correctly and fed high-quality factory-loaded ammo.
And yes, I'm familiar with all the methods of racking or releasing a slide. However, at 80 years of age I don't have the grip strength I had "back in the day" and if the occasion arises that I have to rack the slide, I'm just not confident that I can do it.
And the idea of racking with the strong hand while holding with the weak hand really doesn't appeal to me. Not only is my weak hand significantly weaker than my strong hand, I don't shoot well with it either (yes, yes I know--one should practice shooting with both hands). And I really, really don't like the idea of having to switch the gun back to my strong hand from my weak hand. Not only do I lack grip strength, my manual dexterity is not what it used to be--I would hate to drop the gun in the middle of the switch-over!