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  • Brains

    One of the idiots
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 9, 2013
    6,904
    96
    Spring
    I was watching a lecture recently where the lecturer was illustrating the way kids and young adults are different nowadays. One of the big ways he made a point was to ask everyone over 40 (I may have some details wrong) to raise their hand if they got their driver's license at 16. The whole audience raised their hands. He said something to the effect of "When we were kids, you spent your 16th birthday at the DMV, getting your license."

    Then he pointed out that kids nowadays are much less likely to care. They don't desire (or desire or value as much as previous generations) the personal freedom represented by being licensed to drive.
    Very true. I know at least two who resisted, one who is in his 20's and has never been behind the wheel (not due to health either).

    The love of cars is fading? Well, if you're incapable to speaking directly to a woman, how are you ever going to have the chutzpah to lay down strips of rubber in front of the school superintendents office? How are you ever going to appreciate the freedom and empowerment that automobiles symbolize?
    Interesting comparison, but it makes sense. Too many people hide themselves in technology, whether that's video games, online communities, or what have you.

    A couple more quips about safety gear in cars. Many years back, one of the winters it was we got snow down here, the wife, kid and I were heading home to Katy from the in-laws on the SE side of town. It was late, probably 11pm or so, kid was asleep in the back and the wife and I were just cruising home noting all the cars wrecked at every overpass. People here aren't used to freezing temperatures, and thus aren't very skilled responding to what happens. Despite all the safety gear, all the active handling systems and auto braking assists, like clockwork they'd crest the overpass and react incorrectly when they felt the car get loose. The car I was driving (2004 Pontiac GTO) was equipped with only ABS and traction control, and the T/C was switched off. 50 mile trip home, and only once did we get significantly crossed up. Crossing the overpass on I-10 @ Barker Cypress or Mason, can't remember which, we got hit with a pretty good gust and we had to ride the back side of the overpass tail out. Had T/C been on, it would have detected the wheel speed difference and snapped the throttle shut. Snapping the throttle shut would have dragged the back tires, creating a much more difficult to control situation. Active handling systems would get it wrong here. You keep wheel speed as close to vehicle speed as possible, you stay off the brakes, steer where you intend to go, and wait for traction.

    I now have a car that you can't effectively disable all these assists. The dash may say "off" but the system is never fully disabled. Case in point, I hydroplaned pretty hard while under power with all the active handling allegedly disabled. Immediately the "assists" kicked in, and instead of simply spinning the back tires faster it started grabbing the brake on the 'inside' front and 'outside' rear tire attempting to "correct" the steering wheel / yaw angle disparity. Not sure it takes a rocket scientist to understand what happens when you stop a wheel with low traction which then suddenly regains traction when the tire sets back down. That slight error turned into a major error pretty quickly. Took a pretty judicious application of driver steering inputs to keep the car off the curb. Without the computer applying braking the entire thing would have been quite uneventful. As an aside, Goodyear Eagle RS-A2's are terrible in the rain, and will float a 4400lb. sedan at 50mph on 1/2" of water.
    Texas SOT
     

    Txhillbilly

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 2, 2008
    966
    76
    North Texas
    We all do better with assistance, either physical or electronic alerts. I don't want to see electronics driving our cars such as the old story of Prius runaways (or human error) but emergency braking when a collision is about to occur I like.

    IMO, Very few of the electronic nannies that are installed in vehicles are needed. What is needed and probably will never happen is a cell phone blocker in each vehicle. They are made, but for some reason they aren't mandated.
    They render a cell phone useless when the vehicle is in gear or moving. That one system would stop a large percentage of traffic accidents.

    Technology has pretty much removed Common Sense from most people born in the 1980's to present day. We have to have everything Child Proofed, and Stupid Proofed.
    Driving on publics roads is a privilege, not a right. If you can't drive a car without it doing everything for you when it comes to driving safe, then you should probably take public transportation.
     

    Txhillbilly

    Active Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 2, 2008
    966
    76
    North Texas
    I was watching a lecture recently where the lecturer was illustrating the way kids and young adults are different nowadays. One of the big ways he made a point was to ask everyone over 40 (I may have some details wrong) to raise their hand if they got their driver's license at 16. The whole audience raised their hands. He said something to the effect of "When we were kids, you spent your 16th birthday at the DMV, getting your license."

    Then he pointed out that kids nowadays are much less likely to care. They don't desire (or desire or value as much as previous generations) the personal freedom represented by being licensed to drive.

    OT warning from here on...

    He went on to discuss how young folks were less capable of communicating in person, another thing (like driving) that takes courage and a desire to stand up for yourself. He illustrated that with a story about Stormi Daniels. He had been on a TV show with her and there was some down time when he got to simply have a conversation with her, off the record and relaxed. The subject of the way people transition to adulthood was in the air and she had an interesting perspective.

    As you may or may not know, folks in her position tend to make the most money by touring as a feature dancer. During their appearances at clubs, they interact with customers and make money from private dances. Ms. Daniels pointed out that she'd been doing it for more than two decades but in recent years she has been disheartened to find that the average young man, in his early to mid-20s, is simply unable to look her in the eye. Old men still communicate directly. 20 years ago, young men communicated directly. Now? The new males were mostly incapable. It was almost as if they'd rather text her than speak to her.

    The love of cars is fading? Well, if you're incapable to speaking directly to a woman, how are you ever going to have the chutzpah to lay down strips of rubber in front of the school superintendents office? How are you ever going to appreciate the freedom and empowerment that automobiles symbolize?

    I'm struggling, here. I can't find a hopeful tag to put on this post.

    As much as I appreciate the march of technology and improved safety, I still keenly appreciate the viewpoint of those who see in these advancements a surrender of personal agency. And that's just sad.

    It's true, The younger generation doesn't care about driving vehicles. My youngest nephew is 21+, He has never wanted to get his drivers license or drive a vehicle. He still lives with my sister, so she either takes him to work or he calls Uber for a ride.

    I truly don't understand it!
    I got a Hardship license when I was 14 years old since I needed to drive on the farm. I was taught at a very young age how to drive tractor's and other machinery by my grandfather. I was 10 - 11 when he taught me how to drive a car , a 1964 Pontiac Catalina. I had to set on a phone book, and use a cut off broom handle to reach the gas & brake pedal's driving around the farm.

    They'd probably throw a person in jail now for doing that, saying it was dangerous or child abuse.
     

    Brains

    One of the idiots
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 9, 2013
    6,904
    96
    Spring
    I may have once taken my Mom's '78 Bonneville wagon into the field next to the house and did donuts for a while when I was 10. Sitting on the edge of the seat and holding myself up with the steering wheel.
     

    rotor

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 1, 2015
    4,239
    96
    Texas
    For those that don't like the modern systems and somehow manage to post to a forum....
    download.jpg
     

    oldag

    TGT Addict
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    7   0   0
    Feb 19, 2015
    17,427
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    If you can read the 600 page manual that comes with your new car and learn how to use the alerts that may save your life you are smart enough to be on the highway nowadays. I don't want a self driving car but I do want the safety features. Be honest though, does your car have power windows, automatic transmission, electric controlled mirrors? I bet it does. Do you need them, no. When that 300 pound hog runs across one of those high speed highways at 3:00 am and your car breaks for you, you become a believer.
    I have stopped the car on my own in similar situations (deer, hogs, etc.). On more than one occasion. And braking is not always the answer, sometimes maintaining (or even increasing) speed and maneuvering are the solution.

    And wait until that car brakes in a situation where you do not want it to do so.

    Again, each to his own.
     

    Brains

    One of the idiots
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    3   0   0
    Apr 9, 2013
    6,904
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    Spring
    For those that don't like the modern systems and somehow manage to post to a forum.... View attachment 228599
    I think you're skimming past the point myself and others are making. That point is simple; the assistive "safety" systems often have negative impacts (pun intended). They deserve to be a choice, but are not.

    Technology is great and wonderful, and I have made a lot of money by choosing a tech field career. But there is one very humbling truth, that technology isn't better just because it's tech.

    People will blindly trust things they don't understand, if those things are presented properly. The tech industry, among others, (ab)uses this blissful ignorance to extract great profits from peoples' pockets. Quite a bit of the vehicle safety tech fits right in here.

    In another thread you mentioned writing a check to your accountant in lieu of doing your own taxes. Earlier in this thread you questioned my intelligence. Should I do the same and make a blind assessment of your basic math skills, or would it be more accurate to say you don't like doing taxes, don't want to keep track of all the nuances in the tax code, and feel you have better things to spend your time on? I don't think you're stupid for wanting all the driver safety features on a car, but let's just say I wouldn't hesitate to have a friendly driving competition.

    FIWW, I do my own taxes, it's actually pretty easy - and I use technology to help.
     

    rotor

    TGT Addict
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    0   0   0
    Nov 1, 2015
    4,239
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    I think you're skimming past the point myself and others are making. That point is simple; the assistive "safety" systems often have negative impacts (pun intended). They deserve to be a choice, but are not.

    Technology is great and wonderful, and I have made a lot of money by choosing a tech field career. But there is one very humbling truth, that technology isn't better just because it's tech.

    People will blindly trust things they don't understand, if those things are presented properly. The tech industry, among others, (ab)uses this blissful ignorance to extract great profits from peoples' pockets. Quite a bit of the vehicle safety tech fits right in here.

    In another thread you mentioned writing a check to your accountant in lieu of doing your own taxes. Earlier in this thread you questioned my intelligence. Should I do the same and make a blind assessment of your basic math skills, or would it be more accurate to say you don't like doing taxes, don't want to keep track of all the nuances in the tax code, and feel you have better things to spend your time on? I don't think you're stupid for wanting all the driver safety features on a car, but let's just say I wouldn't hesitate to have a friendly driving competition.

    FIWW, I do my own taxes, it's actually pretty easy - and I use technology to help.
    Brains, I have too complicated a tax situation to do my own taxes. That is the good news as I have been quite successful. The tax law is too complicated in my situation. My daughter though does her own taxes. So, it's not a failure of math skills.

    As I noted, I can turn off the safety systems in my car if I want them off and I can adjust them to non standard warnings if I want to. At least I can turn off most of them. I don't think I can turn off auto braking if I am about to crash. Maybe I can but I don't know why I would. I had my first car in 1960 so I have been through about everything new that comes along in cars. I had to rent a car to teach my daughter to drive stick shift. I can't find a stick shift rental to teach my grandson stick shift. To be quite honest, the only thing I don't like that is in my present car is the auto engine stop feature to save gas but previously owning a Prius that's not a big deal. I love the camera features, the HUD, the blind spot warnings, cruise controls, rear cross warnings so I don't have to back out blindly from a parking spot, you name it.

    My user name is from one of my many fields of expertise, one being a helicopter owner and pilot. I am quite prepared to drive or fly virtually anything and have the ratings to show it. What I am not prepared to do is my own taxes (or my own surgery) as the penalty for a mistake is too great. If I insulted your neurologic skills I apologize. You seemed to be downplaying mine.

    So which specific features of the nanny car do you think should be eliminated? I am open to your arguments.
     

    innominate

    Asian Cajun
    Lifetime Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 3, 2010
    2,044
    96
    Austin
    I was watching a lecture recently where the lecturer was illustrating the way kids and young adults are different nowadays. One of the big ways he made a point was to ask everyone over 40 (I may have some details wrong) to raise their hand if they got their driver's license at 16. The whole audience raised their hands. He said something to the effect of "When we were kids, you spent your 16th birthday at the DMV, getting your license."

    Then he pointed out that kids nowadays are much less likely to care. They don't desire (or desire or value as much as previous generations) the personal freedom represented by being licensed to drive.

    OT warning from here on...

    He went on to discuss how young folks were less capable of communicating in person, another thing (like driving) that takes courage and a desire to stand up for yourself. He illustrated that with a story about Stormi Daniels. He had been on a TV show with her and there was some down time when he got to simply have a conversation with her, off the record and relaxed. The subject of the way people transition to adulthood was in the air and she had an interesting perspective.

    As you may or may not know, folks in her position tend to make the most money by touring as a feature dancer. During their appearances at clubs, they interact with customers and make money from private dances. Ms. Daniels pointed out that she'd been doing it for more than two decades but in recent years she has been disheartened to find that the average young man, in his early to mid-20s, is simply unable to look her in the eye. Old men still communicate directly. 20 years ago, young men communicated directly. Now? The new males were mostly incapable. It was almost as if they'd rather text her than speak to her.

    The love of cars is fading? Well, if you're incapable to speaking directly to a woman, how are you ever going to have the chutzpah to lay down strips of rubber in front of the school superintendents office? How are you ever going to appreciate the freedom and empowerment that automobiles symbolize?

    I'm struggling, here. I can't find a hopeful tag to put on this post.

    As much as I appreciate the march of technology and improved safety, I still keenly appreciate the viewpoint of those who see in these advancements a surrender of personal agency. And that's just sad.
    I think my gf has seen him speak. At least the person she saw did something similar. He asked everyone over 40 or 50, I don't remember the exact age, to raise their arms. He then commented "Those are some nice watches. " He then went on to discuss the challenges of managing people from different generations.
     
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