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Some thoughts on fixing the proliferation of 30.06 and 30.07 signs next session

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  • SC-Texas

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    Some thoughts on fixing the proliferation of 30.06 and 30.07 signs next session

    Since our victory this last legislative session with open carry and reducing the criminal penalty for violation of 30.06 from a class A misdemeanor to. Class C misdemeanor, we have some more work to do.

    As most of you have noticed, there have been a rash of 30.06 and 30.07 signs being posted. The liberal hoplophobes that walk amongst us have succeeded in scaring the public into posting 30.06 and 30.0 signs everywhere.

    Despite the fact that LTC holders are statistically the most law-abiding segment of the population.

    Despite the fact that 30.06 signs have never stopped the crime from being committed.

    Despite the fact, that almost no one opened carries anyway.

    The signs that are being posted are often noncompliant signs.

    I myself have noticed the signs being posted on the doors themselves. That is a problem because if someone is holding the door open for you as you walk to the building, you would not see the offensive 30.06 or 30. 07 sign.

    Lots of these signs are merely vinyl letters posted on a clear glass background. It is hard to distinguish these signs from all of the other signage that businesses post near their entrances.

    I have a proposal for tweaking laws in the next legislative session that's would fix most of these problems.

    Read on. What do you think?


    The next session. We need to make some changes

    1. 30.06. No more 30.06 for private businesses. If you can't see it. . . . The only lawful 30.06 would be for places that are statutorily prohibited i.e. courts. Voting places etc. Require bars i.e. 51% places to post 30.06.

    1.5. Verbal notice Business owner may ask you to leave for concealed or open carry.

    2. 30.07. Letters must be 6" tall. Black letters on white background. Only mounted on non moving surfaces at All entrances

    3. 30.07 class c misdemeanor and can't loose ltc. Or simply decriminalize 30.07.

    4. Tort immunity for business that do not post 30.07. Strict liability for damages arising from criminal activity for business that do post 30.07

    5. Landlords may not put anti LTC language in lease i.e. 30.06 and 30.07 Language.

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    txinvestigator

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    Some thoughts on fixing the proliferation of 30.06 and 30.07 signs next session

    Since our victory this last legislative session with open carry and reducing the criminal penalty for violation of 30.06 from a class A misdemeanor to. Class C misdemeanor, we have some more work to do.

    As most of you have noticed, there have been a rash of 30.06 and 30.07 signs being posted. The liberal hoplophobes that walk amongst us have succeeded in scaring the public into posting 30.06 and 30.0 signs everywhere.

    Despite the fact that LTC holders are statistically the most law-abiding segment of the population.

    Despite the fact that 30.06 signs have never stopped the crime from being committed.

    Despite the fact, that almost no one opened carries anyway.

    The signs that are being posted are often noncompliant signs.

    I myself have noticed the signs being posted on the doors themselves. That is a problem because if someone is holding the door open for you as you walk to the building, you would not see the offensive 30.06 or 30. 07 sign.

    Lots of these signs are merely vinyl letters posted on a clear glass background. It is hard to distinguish these signs from all of the other signage that businesses post near their entrances.

    I have a proposal for tweaking laws in the next legislative session that's would fix most of these problems.

    Read on. What do you think?


    The next session. We need to make some changes

    1. 30.06. No more 30.06 for private businesses. If you can't see it. . . . The only lawful 30.06 would be for places that are statutorily prohibited i.e. courts. Voting places etc. Require bars i.e. 51% places to post 30.06.
    Disagree completely.

    [/quote] 1.5. 30.05 remains. Business owner may ask you to leave for concealed or open carry. [/quote] 30.05 allows notice by "written communication" which includes signage. Do what you suggest here and you open the door for ghost buster signs, small lettering, etc. 30.05's lack of specificity for signage is why we got 30.06.

    2. 30.07. Letters must be 6" tall. Black letters on white background. Only mounted on non moving surfaces at All entrances

    3. 30.07 class c misdemeanor and can't loose ltc. Or simply decriminalize 30.07.
    So carry past a sign, owner asks you to not open carry and you tell owner to **** off, no penalty? No thanks.

    4. Tort immunity for business that do not post 30.07. Strict liability for damages arising from criminal activity for business that do post 30.07
    If it is a place you have no choice but to go into, I'd agree. But I can't think of one place that fits that.
    5. Landlords may not put anti LTC language in lease i.e. 30.06 and 30.07 Language.

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    That seems to make sense.

    I am pro-second, hell I teach LTC. However, you should not be able to force businesses to permit that which they do not want on their property.

    There is nothing wrong with the laws (in regards to these trespass laws) as they stand.
     

    Jon Payne

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    I don't like either sign, but I'm against telling folks what they must do on their property. A farm I visit frequently is a "must carry zone". Anyone who refuses to go armed is not allowed to remain on the property. I'm ok with that too.


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    SC-Texas

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    Thus is business property open to the publuc, engaging in commerce. They are already regulated. They already told who they can and who they can't allow in .

    They are protected from the economic consequences of posting those signs.

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    SC-Texas

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    TX investigator. You do realize businesses are virtually immune as it stands for damages caused by criminal activity?

    This would simply force the businesses to bear the economic burden of posting the signs.

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    SC-Texas

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    Let's discuss the property rights v right to self defense.

    My thoughts on concealed. There should be no 30.06. The fact is it seems like a vast majority of people ignore 30.06 anyway and the business owners don't know about it. So that seems to be a pointless law.

    Pointless laws need to go and 30.06 is the definition of pointless.

    30.07. If the business owner doesn't want to see only carried weapons fine. Then he should accept monetary responsibility for the exercise of their private property rights.



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    SC-Texas

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    "A private business that is truely private and not open to the public should be able to post 30.06 and 30.07. Any business open to the public shouldn't be able to post 30.06 or 30.07."

    This makes sense. It's from another thread.

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    Blind Sniper

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    The business is public, but the property is usually still private. Would you like it if some asshole from the state (or God forbid, federal) government told you what you -have- to allow on your property lest you face fines/charges/penalties? I don't fuckin' think so.
     

    Fragman

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    The fact is it seems like a vast majority of people ignore 30.06

    I highly doubt that is true. The vast majority? I certainly don't.

    Can't claim that we are 'the most law abiding segment of the population' on one hand and then say the vast majority of us ignore 30.06 (which would be breaking the law).



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    leVieux

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    In a "Free society", your remedy is to not go.

    Several years ago, a Toyota Dealership in Baton Rouge posted a "NO Concealed Weapons" sign.

    A few, 3 or 4, good old Boys went in and priced pickup trucks.

    They then went down the highway to the next Toyota dealership, bought a new truck, went back to the first place, showed them their new truck, and told them flat-out that their "sign" had caused them to do business with their competitor.

    Next morning the sign was GONE !

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    SC-Texas

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    The business is public, but the property is usually still private. Would you like it if some $#@! from the state (or God forbid, federal) government told you what you -have- to allow on your property lest you face fines/charges/penalties? I don't $#@!in' think so.
    And they already do this.

    But what I propose would allow the business owner to post the sign if he was willing to accept financial respsibility for the damages that arise from his posting of the signs.

    It's a truly conservative point of view from an economic standpoint. The business owner has to bear the cost of his decision.

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    winchster

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    I like you Sean, but this idea is absurd. A far better target for next session would be allow LTC to carry anywhere LEO can. We have the statistics to prove how well we obey the law.

    I don't do business with 30.06 locations, unless I have no option. When I have no option, I continue to be a law abiding citizen. I have never carried past a legitimate 30.06 sign

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