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Someone explain Bump Stocks to me?

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  • candcallen

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    Bump stocks simply help you pull the trigger faster. An evolution of bump firing which people have been doing since there was a semi auto type firing system.

    They are controversial because the tard that shot up the music festival in Vegas used several rifles with bump stocks on them. Interestingly almost all jammed and were discarded inoperable.

    After the shooting the ATF magically decided a bump stock was suddenly an automatic weapon even though it doesn't change the operating function of the rifle from semi auto. They did so illegally and clearly disregarded the law the legally defined description of full auto versus semi auto and their own historical determinations of what makes a full auto weapon.

    People still bump fire just as they have for a century or more, with their finger.
     

    Texasjack

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    candcallen gave a pretty good synopsis. I would add that bump stocks are, in my opinion, a cheap gimmick. Mostly they just let you bang off a lot of rounds so you can pretend you have an automatic rifle. The ones I saw were cheesy and not anything I'd waste my money on. After the ban, people who never gave bump stocks the time of day suddenly took great offense at them being banned - or more specifically, they got mad at anyone who went along with the ban (e.g., the NRA). There are still echoes of the anger floating around the internet. While I hate to give up any gun rights, this was one issue that I would happily give up if it meant that no other rights were lost. In this case, there were anti-gun people calling for bans on "assault rifles" and "high capacity" magazines and even more restrictions. The bump stock ban was a bone tossed to them so they'd think they won and shut up for a while.

    As cancallen pointed out, bump stocks did not make a rifle more dangerous. In the case of the Las Vegas shooter, he was blindly firing into a very large crowd and could have been simply pulling the trigger quickly. The problem with the anti-gun crowd is that they focus on the tool instead of the fool. A gun is just a tool. It's not intrinsically good or evil. The problem is with the person operating the tool. The militants who caused the death and destruction on 9-11 took a jet aircraft (tool) and used it to destroy. If you ban aircraft, would that protect everyone from lunatics like these? Clearly, no. If you want to make life safer, you have to focus on the actor and either take care of them when they are discovered or be prepared to react quickly when they start to do harm.
     

    Hoji

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    candcallen gave a pretty good synopsis. I would add that bump stocks are, in my opinion, a cheap gimmick. Mostly they just let you bang off a lot of rounds so you can pretend you have an automatic rifle. The ones I saw were cheesy and not anything I'd waste my money on. After the ban, people who never gave bump stocks the time of day suddenly took great offense at them being banned - or more specifically, they got mad at anyone who went along with the ban (e.g., the NRA). There are still echoes of the anger floating around the internet. While I hate to give up any gun rights, this was one issue that I would happily give up if it meant that no other rights were lost. In this case, there were anti-gun people calling for bans on "assault rifles" and "high capacity" magazines and even more restrictions. The bump stock ban was a bone tossed to them so they'd think they won and shut up for a while.

    As cancallen pointed out, bump stocks did not make a rifle more dangerous. In the case of the Las Vegas shooter, he was blindly firing into a very large crowd and could have been simply pulling the trigger quickly. The problem with the anti-gun crowd is that they focus on the tool instead of the fool. A gun is just a tool. It's not intrinsically good or evil. The problem is with the person operating the tool. The militants who caused the death and destruction on 9-11 took a jet aircraft (tool) and used it to destroy. If you ban aircraft, would that protect everyone from lunatics like these? Clearly, no. If you want to make life safer, you have to focus on the actor and either take care of them when they are discovered or be prepared to react quickly when they start to do harm.
    No more “bones” tossed their way.
    A87D5D84-3C61-48CD-9F7D-85D38C566BDE.png
     

    satx78247

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    As the title asks,
    I have seen a couple posts about bump stocks and do not know what they do? How come they are so controversial?

    ThatPunkGirl,

    FIRST, WELCOME ABOARD.

    ImVho, I'll go a step further & say: "Bump Stocks" are nothing more than an EXPENSIVE & OVER-PRICED TOY, that do little more than WASTE ammo.

    Fi, when they were legal, I was offered one for FREE, by one of our school's exes. - I said, "NO THANKS".

    just my OPINION, satx
     

    Hoji

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    ThatPunkGirl,

    FIRST, WELCOME ABOARD.

    ImVho, I'll go a step further & say: "Bump Stocks" are nothing more than an EXPENSIVE & OVER-PRICED TOY, that do little more than WASTE ammo.

    Fi, when they were legal, I was offered one for FREE, by one of our school's exes. - I said, "NO THANKS".

    just my OPINION, satx
    One could say that a 30,60, 100 round magazines are the same thing. ( toy that wastes ammo)
    Remember when a shoe string was used as constructive intent for manufacture of a machine gun?
    I want my damned cake back.
     

    benenglish

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    As the title asks,
    I have seen a couple posts about bump stocks and do not know what they do? How come they are so controversial?
    Interesting replies thus far, but I note that no one has actually tried to answer your questions in a manner understandable by someone unfamiliar with the concept.

    In general, "bump firing" is when you (via whatever method) hold your trigger finger still and let the firearm move back and forth via a combination of recoil (which pushes the firearm back) and the way you're holding it (which pushes the firearm forward). This back and forth motion of the firearm while the trigger finger remains fixed in place causes the trigger to repeatedly "bump" against the trigger finger which causes the firearm to "fire" repeatedly and quickly. Put the two quoted words together and you have "bump fire".

    Bump fire can be done many, many ways. Most of them are awkward and produce inaccurate fire but they're a fun way to dump a bunch of rounds into the berm in a very short time. And mag dumps, after all, are something everyone engages in occasionally for fun. If someone is a real sourpuss, they'll claim they're just "function testing" but, hey, we all know the real truth; shooting a whole mag full of ammo as fast as you can is simply fun.

    Note that I said that bump fire could be done many ways. Here are some examples.

    First, it can be done with pistols. You may have seen such things done in movies but here's a guy who has some reasonable skill with a pistol. Note that he's basically just holding the pistol with one hand as it bounces back and forth while simultaneously using the trigger finger of the other hand (and holding it fixed in one place in space) to actuate the trigger.




    Second and more commonly, bump firing is done with rifles. No special stock is required. Although there are others, here's one technique.




    A bump stock is a piece of equipment designed to refine this whole process, making it more controllable/accurate and easier to do for those of us who aren't particularly coordinated. It gives you a shelf to park your trigger finger and allows the action of the gun to reciprocate inside the buttstock. I couldn't find a good demo of one on YouTube. There are a *bunch* of bumpstock videos but none of them is particularly good. This one is about the best I found that runs under 2 minutes. If you want a very long, detailed, high-quality look at how they work, The Gun Collective put up one that's over 12 minutes long. For now, though, have a look at this short explanation. It contains a huge error the technically-adept will spot easily but if you know nothing about bumpstocks, it's a good starting point. Just keep in mind that the "spring" pressure referenced in the video is actually provided by the shooter pushing forward on the forearm of the rifle, not by any spring inside the bump stock.




    Now, moving on to a few additional points.

    First, lots of folks like to denigrate bump stocks as useless, inaccurate toys and look down their noses at people who own(ed) them. I was one of those owners. I installed mine on a Just Right Carbine, a fairly heavy 9mm pistol caliber carbine. In that application, I found that I could keep mag dumps in a 4 to 6 inch circle at 15 yards. That's reasonable personal defense accuracy. It was also a great deal of fun. Folks who dismiss the entire concept of bump stocks being in any way practical have not, in my opinion, had sufficient time running one to understand their limitations and practical applications. They were valid pieces of kit, if you understood them.

    Second, much of the controversy around them arises from the fact that the NRA lost a golden opportunity to make progress in the gun control fight. Before there was any real groundswell of support for banning bumpstocks, Marion Hammer of the NRA completely threw them under the bus saying, in effect, that they were machine guns and should have never been legal.

    This was monumentally stupid.

    Even if 2A supporters were going to lose on the bumpstock issue, it was a huge bargaining chip. We could have traded bumpstocks for (say) the passage of the Hearing Protection Act or for some other useful purpose. Instead, the NRA went super-Fudd and super-politically-inept at the same time; many of us have still not forgiven them.

    Third and finally, I assume (correct me if I'm wrong), that you ask the question because bump stocks are back in the news today. The ruling that Chevron deference was incorrectly applied to ban these stocks is heartening; the whole process of banning them was done in a very legally dodgy manner and is perhaps the biggest source of controversy about them. I hope the ruling sticks but my thoughts on the ruling would be too lengthy to include in this (already too long) post.

    If you have more questions and would like to talk to someone who actually owned a bump stock and liked it, feel free to hit me up for more.
     
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    satx78247

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    One could say that a 30,60, 100 round magazines are the same thing. ( toy that wastes ammo)
    Remember when a shoe string was used as constructive intent for manufacture of a machine gun?
    I want my damned cake back.


    Hoji,

    I can make a case that there IS a place for 30 round mags. - The larger ones not so much.

    And YEP I well remember the KNOWING LIES told to the federal courts about shoestrings by BATFE agents, under oath.
    (I used to have to put up with those DUMB-bunnies, when I was a PM or DCA-LE on active duty. = Fyi, I had 2 of them "escorted off post" by my Patrol Supervisor, a 95B40 & BANNED from our premises for 3 years, for being a GPITA. = Their supervising agent complained to our Post CDR & he made the ban PERMANENT.)

    yours, satx
     

    cvgunman

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    While at a trade show in Ft. Worth years a go, they had a "range day" at Elm Fork. There were a few manufacturers of the bump stocks there and they were available to try out. From personal experience, you had to have just the right "rhythm" to get one to work. Most times, I would be able to make it work about 3-4 rounds and then have to find the "rhythm" again. Wasn't for me, but as stated before "Shall Not Infringe".
     

    lightflyer1

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    Gotta ban pants then. Common sense pants control. I am sure Resident Xiden would be thrilled with the prospect of being around children without those damnable machine gun making pants.

    Pants? Fingers man. If they ban your fingers and remove them for everyone's safety, you get to keep your pants.
     

    Kar98

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    One could say that a 30,60, 100 round magazines are the same thing. ( toy that wastes ammo)
    Remember when a shoe string was used as constructive intent for manufacture of a machine gun?
    I want my damned cake back.

    The cake was a lie.
     

    Kar98

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    Too many words. Let’s simplify it:

    On a regular gun not equipped with a bump stock, you can with practice figure out how to let the entire gun rock back and forth in your hand so the trigger gets pushed against your finger rather than pulling the trigger manually.
    Tricky, do it too much and it just doesn’t cycle at all. Fine line.

    A bump stock makes this a little bit easier. Doesn’t make it a machine gun because the trigger still gets pulled once per shot. Doesn’t make it accurate or reliable either, nor does it approach the firing speed of an actual machine gun.
     
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