SPAS-12 buying: what to look for?

[A1Oni]

Destructive Devices: [Include] shotguns with a bore of more than .5 inch in diameter which are not generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.” Examples deemed destructive devices by the ATF are the Street Sweeper, SPAS-12 and others. These guns are illegal to own unless they were registered during the ATF’s now-expired grace period.

With this in mind you might consider a Benelli M-4 entry gun or a Tromix Sagia

spas 12s are preban and arent really destructive devices, the spas15 however is.

 

[Spence1875]

If it were me I would look for a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. Easier to get parts for it I bet.

 

[AndrewBuda]

Destructive Devices: [Include] shotguns with a bore of more than .5 inch in diameter which are not generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.” Examples deemed destructive devices by the ATF are the Street Sweeper, SPAS-12 and others. These guns are illegal to own unless they were registered during the ATF’s now-expired grace period.

With this in mind you might consider a Benelli M-4 entry gun or a Tromix Sagia

Where are you quoting from? The standard 18" Spas 12 regardless of stock choose is a title 1 shotgun. It does not require registration, tax stamps etc.

I’ve been interested in the Franchi SPAS-12 for a while now, but have been hesitant to plunk down the $$$ due to concerns with it being finicky and certain parts being prone to breakdown (stock shock absorber “tit”, o-ring, etc.). Presuming I can get my hands on one to inspect before buying (or more realistically, having it inspected after buying), what red flags should I be looking for?

Not sure if you're still on the hunt for a Spas 12, but here's my 2 cents. It will be finicky. The o rings have a relatively short lifespan, the manual of arms is overly complicated, they don't feel refined, they're heavy, they don't swing well, and generally do nothing better than any other shotgun option. If you want a good shotgun, forget about the Spas. That said there's no shotgun I've ever owned that brings as much of a cool factor to the table - the primary purpose of a shotgun for me. If you want one the flaws don't matter and nothing else will scratch the itch. I'd be pretty confident buying one from pictures alone, which is what I did for mine. They durability gets a worse reputation than it deserves. Extensive shooting without a recoil buffer can mess up the receivers but it does so in a pretty obvious way. If the receiver ain't cracked, barrel ain't bulged, and the stock looks good you're not going to be replacing anything that's impossible to get. Pretty much like most guns in that way. The O Rings are interchangeable with Remington 1100 rings, the buffers are on eBay all the time. Those are really your only wear parts. Buy spares, and enjoy the gun. It's a massive smile machine!

 

[baboon]

Where are you quoting from? The standard 18" Spas 12 regardless of stock choose is a title 1 shotgun. It does not require registration, tax stamps etc.

Age Verification - NRA

 

[AndrewBuda]

I

Age Verification - NRA

Interesting, looks like the NRA got that one wrong - I'm wondering if they confused the Spas-12 with the similarly named USAS-12 from Korea. Neither the Spas-12 nor Spas-15 ever classified as DDs, they just stopped coming in because of import laws/94 AWB. That and they weren't especially good sellers. Something like 2000 Spas-12 shotguns were imported, plus or minus depending on source, between 1979 and 1994. A substantial amount of those seemed to end up in Hollywood!

Unfortunately I don't have a convenient letter from the ATF stating the Spas-12 is not a DD, but as 12 Gauge Shotgun it is assumed by the feds to be a sporting firearm unless specifically named as lacking a sporting purpose and there's no published government source stating the Spas-12 lacks a sporting purpose. In lieu of a direct answer from the feds, if you check GunBroker, or any number of prior listings online for the Spas-12 you'll see they transfer as any other shotgun would. Alternatively this link references the reclassification of the Street Sweeper, Striker, and USAS as DDs, with no mention of the Spas-12.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[baboon]

Interesting, looks like the NRA got that one wrong - I'm wondering if they confused the Spas-12 with the similarly named USAS-12 from Korea. Neither the Spas-12 nor Spas-15 ever classified as DDs, they just stopped coming in because of import laws/94 AWB. That and they weren't especially good sellers. Something like 2000 Spas-12 shotguns were imported, plus or minus depending on source, between 1979 and 1994. A substantial amount of those seemed to end up in Hollywood!

Unfortunately I don't have a convenient letter from the ATF stating the Spas-12 is not a DD, but as 12 Gauge Shotgun it is assumed by the feds to be a sporting firearm unless specifically named as lacking a sporting purpose and there's no published government source stating the Spas-12 lacks a sporting purpose. In lieu of a direct answer from the feds, if you check GunBroker, or any number of prior listings online for the Spas-12 you'll see they transfer as any other shotgun would. Alternatively this link references the reclassification of the Street Sweeper, Striker, and USAS as DDs, with no mention of the Spas-12.

Federal Register :: Request Access

IIRC that was all done when Lloyd Bentsen was Secretary of the Treasury under Slick Willy.

 

[AndrewBuda]

IIRC that was all done when Lloyd Bentsen was Secretary of the Treasury under Slick Willy.

Yeah, the Striker, USAS, and Street Sweeper were Bentson's doing. I'm sure he was no fan of the Spas-12 either, but thankfully never got around to reclassifying it. Gee, reclassification being used to expand gun control when efforts to run it through Congress fail? Sure glad we left that in the '90s...

 

[baboon]

Yeah, the Striker, USAS, and Street Sweeper were Bentson's doing. I'm sure he was no fan of the Spas-12 either, but thankfully never got around to reclassifying it. Gee, reclassification being used to expand gun control when efforts to run it through Congress fail? Sure glad we left that in the '90s...

I remember it differently, but it was the 90's. That's about the time I gave up my FFL.

 

[NEPrepper]

dinosaur blood.... clever girl

 

[DJB-TX]

Where are you quoting from? The standard 18" Spas 12 regardless of stock choose is a title 1 shotgun. It does not require registration, tax stamps etc.

Not sure if you're still on the hunt for a Spas 12, but here's my 2 cents. It will be finicky. The o rings have a relatively short lifespan, the manual of arms is overly complicated, they don't feel refined, they're heavy, they don't swing well, and generally do nothing better than any other shotgun option. If you want a good shotgun, forget about the Spas. That said there's no shotgun I've ever owned that brings as much of a cool factor to the table - the primary purpose of a shotgun for me. If you want one the flaws don't matter and nothing else will scratch the itch. I'd be pretty confident buying one from pictures alone, which is what I did for mine. They durability gets a worse reputation than it deserves. Extensive shooting without a recoil buffer can mess up the receivers but it does so in a pretty obvious way. If the receiver ain't cracked, barrel ain't bulged, and the stock looks good you're not going to be replacing anything that's impossible to get. Pretty much like most guns in that way. The O Rings are interchangeable with Remington 1100 rings, the buffers are on eBay all the time. Those are really your only wear parts. Buy spares, and enjoy the gun. It's a massive smile machine!

A massive smile machine indeed! And finicky too. I’m having some FTEs in semi- mode and even on occasion in pump mode. Could that mean that the gas ports are in need of a cleaning? From my visual observations, the bolt’s extractor claw wasn’t engaging with the rim of the spent hull (or engaging it enough) to pull it from the barrel and eject it, even though dummy rounds cycle and eject just fine. Any thoughts?

P.S. Nice 7.62(!) Galil ARM, too, AndrewBuda!

 

[DaBull]

I think the SPAS-12 was caught up in the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. No more importation. The ban expired in 2004, but it was no longer in production so they are still rare and likely pricey.

 

[Steve In Texas]

I think the SPAS-12 was caught up in the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. No more importation.

California banned SPAS-12 in their Roberti Roos actions. That could increase confusion.

 

[AndrewBuda]

A massive smile machine indeed! And finicky too. I’m having some FTEs in semi- mode and even on occasion in pump mode. Could that mean that the gas ports are in need of a cleaning? From my visual observations, the bolt’s extractor claw wasn’t engaging with the rim of the spent hull (or engaging it enough) to pull it from the barrel and eject it, even though dummy rounds cycle and eject just fine. Any thoughts?

P.S. Nice 7.62(!) Galil ARM, too, AndrewBuda!

FTEs in both modes would normally have me thinking the extractor claw doesn't have a good hold on the rim, or the ejector isn't properly engaging. If the Extractor claw looks good and feels like it has good tension take the down and clean the snot out of it. Run a box or two of cheap buckshot through it. Assuming it's ejecting those now I'd say the failures in semi are a dirty gun combined with shooting light loads, often a combo of both. Prior to replacing the action spring on mine it would reliably cycle about 2 boxes of cheap birdshot in semi before I'd get FTEs or switch to heavier loads. With the stiffer action spring it's basically a pump shotgun only for birdshot.

They're somewhat sensitive to short stroking, so if you're having ejection issues on pump mode make sure you're ejector and extractor are good and then really work the action. The return spring on the pump is neat - but makes the gun overall worse IMO and certainly means the action needs to get worked with authority.

I'm not an expert on these by any means but I've got mine running reasonably well and taken it apart more than a few times. The Spas 12 project has some good resources on their website and YouTube.

 

[Kbone70]

I’ve been interested in the Franchi SPAS-12 for a while now, but have been hesitant to plunk down the $$$ due to concerns with it being finicky and certain parts being prone to breakdown (stock shock absorber “tit”, o-ring, etc.). Presuming I can get my hands on one to inspect before buying (or more realistically, having it inspected after buying), what red flags should I be looking for?

Have one that I gave to my son, fun gun to shot with the right ammo.

 

[Kbone70]

Have one that I gave to my son, fun gun to shot with the right ammo.

I you can get one with an original J Hook that is even better.