Spoke to a 21 year old biden supporter today!

alwho421

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Feb 12, 2019
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weren't smart enough to remember they are onboard the cruise ship
 

Texas45

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Dec 10, 2020
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Not where you are
There weren’t very many Obama voters jumping to the other side of the fence after his first four years in fact many more jumped to his side of it the second four years. History will
Repeat again after this term.
We shale see
IF as I fear Jo n DaHo tank the economy and drive up interest rates to 70s/80s rates or close to it we will see a swing back.

I know Im far better now $$ wise etc than I was in 2016 after 8 yrs of O.




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slumpychuck

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Jan 14, 2021
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Last night I was thinking back of other countries, China, Hong Cong, and their citizens fight for democracy and personal freedom. Thoughts returned to the images of Tiananmen Square broadcast in June of 1989. The actions some of those students took in the face of overwhelming power. The image of the student and the tank is indelibly etched in my mind and I suspect in the mind of others on this board. Maybe some of us even thought they had a chance in their struggle for personal freedom and democracy.

Flash forward 3 decades and you get to see the struggle of the Hong Cong people. Same governmental intolerance. Same governmental overwhelming power. Same results.

I know I've watched those events unfold cheering dissidents on from a distance. Took no risk and no direct involvement. Wished'em the best and went back to drinking that beer or washing the truck or whatever. Just didn't give it much though. It was a world away. I didn't need to worry about it. My freedom was secure in the United States of America.

My how the times change. How will our fight for freedom unfold? I'm afraid it is not going to be as simple as waiting 2 years and voting in a new set of elected officials to do our bidding. "Our" bidding is splintered and disjointed and as a result so is the United States of America. WE have never had to fight for our freedom. Those that came before us answered the call. Sure we've been in wars and with the exception of WWII the risk to the U. S. was minimal. During WWI though we remained neutral until 1917 while still providing supplies to our allies the U.S. was not immediately threatened during that war. Not like the dangers we're facing now - internal. But... we have not had to bear arms against our enemies on U.S. soil - ever. Yes... I'm well aware that over the course of U.S. history that does not hold true but, unless there is some desire to simply argue, the crux of what I'm saying holds true for the past - how many generations?

So, how will we respond? Should the military remain in control of the political party in office the power of that is on full display in D.C. as I write this. Will we succumb to the will of the Government as have residents of China and Hong Cong(still being decided). Will we assume the attitude of Axxe55 and many like him and do nothing claiming it's not my problem. Not realizing that eventually it will it will be his problem at which time it may well be too late to alter the trajectory of the Nation.

Reaching out to the opposition voters. The impressionable young adults that don't have the experience nor the education to fully realize, see, the end game. Between drinking the Kool-aide and the smoke and mirrors they have yet to fully understand what transition is taking place here... now. Unfortunately our only hope may be educating and altering the beliefs of the younger voters. Take the time, when it presents its self, to explain what is happening. Tell them "This has happened - whatever "this" is. Then explain what comes next and how. You may not ever see what your words did for that person. You may not be there with them when "next" shows up. But rest assured, just like us with our parents, they will remember and when "next" is reprehensible to them they just might start to believe that even worse things, the things you told them, are coming. At which time they reject that government looking to suppress that which they cherish - freedom.

ETA: I'm not advocating standing on the street corner grabbing folks as they walk by and cramming something/idea down their throats. In day-to-day life "teachable" moments will avail themselves to you. All I'm suggesting is that you do not let those moments pass without taking full advantage of them.
Very well said, sir.


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benenglish

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IF as I fear Jo n DaHo tank the economy and drive up interest rates to 70s/80s rates or close to it we will see a swing back.
It's going to be tough to completely tank our economy. We have too many natural advantages and Trump negotiated good trade deals with Canada, Mexico, South Korea, and Japan. China's in trouble for a lot of reasons and much of the stuff we buy from them will move elsewhere, much of it back to the USA creating jobs and wealth here. Certain fundamentals of our industrial mix are in great shape, like the way fracking has made our energy costs so incredibly low compared to most of the world and the way we can feed ourselves even if most of the world is starving. I could go on.

But I don't think all that is necessarily a good thing. The U.S. is in so much better shape (relative to the rest of the world) now and for the next decade or two that the Dems might actually be able to do a lot of stupid, expensive things without completely tanking the economy. Basically, I see it as the frog in the pot boiling more slowly, maybe so slowly it doesn't realize it until it's too late to jump. But I'm feeling pessimistic tonite.

As for interest rates, demographics will push those up no matter what the Dems do. The majority of baby boomers will soon be retired and no longer contributing to their 401Ks or other investments. They'll start withdrawing. As that happens, the capital shrinkage, worldwide, will drive up interest rates. And I really do mean worldwide. Pretty much every developed country is getting old. Japan is much older than we are. The Chinese are aging faster than us and their credit is so overextended that if they were a business, they would have failed yesterday. I don't think I'll see the cost of capital this low again in my lifetime. It's just a question of when it's going to start shooting up, something that was going to happen whether it's a D or an R in the Oval.

And, yeah, everything swings back eventually. Look at the way globalization is in retreat and didn't everybody believe that trend was going to last virtually forever? So higher interest rates and a bad (good, relative to the rest of the world but pretty bad compared to the last decade) economy will eventually swing back. I just doubt I'll live to see it.
 

MarkTheNewf

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Jan 7, 2021
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But I don't think all that is necessarily a good thing. The U.S. is in so much better shape (relative to the rest of the world) now and for the next decade or two that the Dems might actually be able to do a lot of stupid, expensive things without completely tanking the economy. Basically, I see it as the frog in the pot boiling more slowly, maybe so slowly it doesn't realize it until it's too late to jump. But I'm feeling pessimistic tonite.
Most of it we can probably deal with. The only thing that makes me skittish is that $15/hr min wage. That'll close some places, keep others from hiring, and will certainly cause inflation. Adding to that is the Keystone pipeline shutdown along with others that aren't as well known. I dare say we'll possibly be seeing $4 gas in the not-to-distant future and fuel costs are connected to everything, which will in turn drive inflation up. Stuff and doing stuff is going to get more expensive.

Economics are becoming more volatile every new term. I cringe every time the government does anything to 'fix it' and I don't think Potato Joe and his group are going to do anything good with it.
 

satx78247

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It's going to be tough to completely tank our economy. We have too many natural advantages and Trump negotiated good trade deals with Canada, Mexico, South Korea, and Japan. China's in trouble for a lot of reasons and much of the stuff we buy from them will move elsewhere, much of it back to the USA creating jobs and wealth here. Certain fundamentals of our industrial mix are in great shape, like the way fracking has made our energy costs so incredibly low compared to most of the world and the way we can feed ourselves even if most of the world is starving. I could go on.

But I don't think all that is necessarily a good thing. The U.S. is in so much better shape (relative to the rest of the world) now and for the next decade or two that the Dems might actually be able to do a lot of stupid, expensive things without completely tanking the economy. Basically, I see it as the frog in the pot boiling more slowly, maybe so slowly it doesn't realize it until it's too late to jump. But I'm feeling pessimistic tonite.

As for interest rates, demographics will push those up no matter what the Dems do. The majority of baby boomers will soon be retired and no longer contributing to their 401Ks or other investments. They'll start withdrawing. As that happens, the capital shrinkage, worldwide, will drive up interest rates. And I really do mean worldwide. Pretty much every developed country is getting old. Japan is much older than we are. The Chinese are aging faster than us and their credit is so overextended that if they were a business, they would have failed yesterday. I don't think I'll see the cost of capital this low again in my lifetime. It's just a question of when it's going to start shooting up, something that was going to happen whether it's a D or an R in the Oval.

And, yeah, everything swings back eventually. Look at the way globalization is in retreat and didn't everybody believe that trend was going to last virtually forever? So higher interest rates and a bad (good, relative to the rest of the world but pretty bad compared to the last decade) economy will eventually swing back. I just doubt I'll live to see it.
benenglish,

IF "LOONY JOE & DA HO", with the consent of the FAR LEFT DIMocRATS in Congress do what they claimed to do, they will SOON:

1. BAN FRACKING & BAN new drilling on public lands,
2. Return the income tax rates to what they were when RWR came into office.
3. Keeps spending evermore TRILLIONS of USD,
4. Keeps printing evermore greenbacks that are backed up with NOTHING
AND
4. Gives green cards & "a path to citizenship" to 22 MILLION illegal aliens.

WHAT do you think that the effect on the US economy would be, W/I just ONE year??

yours, satx
 

benenglish

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WHAT do you think that the effect on the US economy would be, W/I just ONE year??
OK. Serious answer...
1. BAN FRACKING & BAN new drilling on public lands,
Fracking becomes almost universally profitable at, what, about $45/bbl? He's already done an XO to stop the Keystone and pissed off a lot of the wrong people. If they try to ban fracking legislatively, the entire energy industry will turn on them. Refineries are re-tooling for the lighter stuff from fracking and banning it would actually be a threat to national security. He'll either find an excuse to let it continue or, when crude hits $60/bbl, he'll have to start making "emergency" exceptions that will become permanent.

The new drilling on public lands isn't such a big issue. The wells already out there are enough to make us a net exporter again, just like we were in the recent past.

So, overall, not as big a deal as it sounds and definitely not within a year.
2. Return the income tax rates to what they were when RWR came into office.
If the rates go up, the dodges will go up. Before I was born, there was (theoretically) a top bracket of 90% (or was it even more?). Nobody paid that. Whatever rate increase bill passes, if it passes, will include perks for the top income brackets so their actual tax bills will remain low.

I think passage is unlikely but if it happens, the middle class will get punched in the stomach. As always.

This, btw, is the only one of your examples that could have an impact in about a year.
3. Keeps spending evermore TRILLIONS of USD,
That one bugs me. The "fiscal conservative" is on the endangered species list if not already extinct. We already have too much debt and we keep kicking the can down the road.

Short term, the excess spending will be a positive in most ways. In the short term, it always is. Longer term, he'll hand his successor a mess, just like Trump handed him a mess, like Obama handed him a mess, and Bush handed him a mess. The last semi-reasonably-spending administration we had was Clinton but he never had to deal with a 9/11. That event kicked off a spending spree that gave birth to more and more spending every year with no clear end in sight.

So what will happen is that someday we'll hit a brick wall but it won't be during a Biden administration, whether that lasts 4 or 8 years, no matter how much he spends. Our economy is still too resilient for that.
4. Gives green cards & "a path to citizenship" to 22 MILLION illegal aliens.
This is a real wild card. Remember Trump and the Mexican President got along pretty well. Lots of illegals are pretty damn conservative on cultural issues and, as pundits are fond of saying these days, politics is downstream of culture.

So my answer is "nothing within a year" but long term I don't know. We may have a huge, unbeatable block of new Democratic voters. OTOH, if the Republicans would pull their heads out of their asses, learn to speak Spanish, and reach out to the illegals who mostly share their cultural values, the negative political impact of providing all those new citizenships could be almost totally blunted. Of course, I don't expect the Republican establishment to be smart enough to turn it into a net positive for our side, even though that's theoretically possible.
 

satx78247

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Jun 23, 2014
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OK. Serious answer...

Fracking becomes almost universally profitable at, what, about $45/bbl? He's already done an XO to stop the Keystone and pissed off a lot of the wrong people. If they try to ban fracking legislatively, the entire energy industry will turn on them. Refineries are re-tooling for the lighter stuff from fracking and banning it would actually be a threat to national security. He'll either find an excuse to let it continue or, when crude hits $60/bbl, he'll have to start making "emergency" exceptions that will become permanent.

The new drilling on public lands isn't such a big issue. The wells already out there are enough to make us a net exporter again, just like we were in the recent past.

So, overall, not as big a deal as it sounds and definitely not within a year.

If the rates go up, the dodges will go up. Before I was born, there was (theoretically) a top bracket of 90% (or was it even more?). Nobody paid that. Whatever rate increase bill passes, if it passes, will include perks for the top income brackets so their actual tax bills will remain low.

I think passage is unlikely but if it happens, the middle class will get punched in the stomach. As always.

This, btw, is the only one of your examples that could have an impact in about a year.

That one bugs me. The "fiscal conservative" is on the endangered species list if not already extinct. We already have too much debt and we keep kicking the can down the road.

Short term, the excess spending will be a positive in most ways. In the short term, it always is. Longer term, he'll hand his successor a mess, just like Trump handed him a mess, like Obama handed him a mess, and Bush handed him a mess. The last semi-reasonably-spending administration we had was Clinton but he never had to deal with a 9/11. That event kicked off a spending spree that gave birth to more and more spending every year with no clear end in sight.

So what will happen is that someday we'll hit a brick wall but it won't be during a Biden administration, whether that lasts 4 or 8 years, no matter how much he spends. Our economy is still too resilient for that.

This is a real wild card. Remember Trump and the Mexican President got along pretty well. Lots of illegals are pretty damn conservative on cultural issues and, as pundits are fond of saying these days, politics is downstream of culture.

So my answer is "nothing within a year" but long term I don't know. We may have a huge, unbeatable block of new Democratic voters. OTOH, if the Republicans would pull their heads out of their asses, learn to speak Spanish, and reach out to the illegals who mostly share their cultural values, the negative political impact of providing all those new citizenships could be almost totally blunted. Of course, I don't expect the Republican establishment to be smart enough to turn it into a net positive for our side, even though that's theoretically possible.
benenglish,

I note that you didn't comment on printing HUGE amounts of greenbacks that are backed with NOTHING of value. MASSIVE INFLATION may happen.= Remember what happened in post-WWI Germany when the government started printing UN-SECURED & near worthless paper currency.
(LOAVES of BREAD soon cost over 10,000 Marks each.)

yours, satx
 

benenglish

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I note that you didn't comment on printing HUGE amounts of greenbacks that are backed with NOTHING of value.
Sorry about that. Since you had two #4s, I figured your #3 and initial #4 were the same observation - general fiscal irresponsibility. My answer is roughly the same - feel-good in the short term, bad news in the long term, virtually no possibility of impact within the first year.
 

satx78247

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Jun 23, 2014
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Sorry about that. Since you had two #4s, I figured your #3 and initial #4 were the same observation - general fiscal irresponsibility. My answer is roughly the same - feel-good in the short term, bad news in the long term, virtually no possibility of impact within the first year.
benenglish,

I didn't do a very good "renumbering job", did I??

I truly FEAR that "LOONY JOE & da HO" with their FAR LEFT friends will SINK the US economy & return the USA to something like 1933-36. ========> "Brother, can you spare a dime?", comes to mind.

I will be LITTLE AFFECTED, as my lady has wealth in gold/jewels & in land abroad (We were already planning to retire OCONUS in 20121 & before this MESS all started.) BUT I really worry about Texas/USA.

just m opinion, satx
 

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