Springfield M1a

[ransom]

I just finished getting over M1A fever. It almost killed me (and my bank account). The final antidote for me was reading Boston's Gun Bible. Boston loves the M1 and it's his top 308 battle rifle in the latest edition (FAL and HK91 are close second). His biggest problem with Springfield is the cast receivers. In an M1, he insists the receivers must be forged for the same expected life as an M14. So to get a FORGED M14 receiver, you either pay dearly (there are a number of US manufacturers that sell forged M14 receivers) or you take an old Chinese Norinco (which is forged, but not hardened very well) and send it up to this guy in New York who will harden it to 48?c which makes it as strong as the original M14. That is how he did his and it is his favorite rifle.

The Gun Bible I have is from 2004. Current prices for doing this job are probably close to a new Springer. Just passin' it a long...first post on TGT, so go easy on me

 

[TriggerTime]

IMHO, and based on the posts over on M14 Firling Line, the cast vs. forged receiver is another one of those Colt vs. Kimber vs. Sig, etc. arguements. I have SA M1A's and they shoot much better than me and there are lots of High Masters out there who have them too. If you are interested in getting an expensive habit, get you a SA M1A and start finding room in your budget for 7.62 x 51's. You've been warned, they are addictive because they shoot great.

Have fun and good shooting.

 

[ransom]

I'm sure that they shoot fine. I'm just saying that according to Boston T. Party, they will not have the same expected life as a forged receiver. But to keep that in perspective...we are talking like 30K rounds vs. 50K rounds expected from a forged M14.

So at .60/round...unless you plan on spending more than 1.8 million dollars on .308, the cast will be fine

YMMV

 

[ROGER4314]

Allright,

Ever since I can remember I have wanted to own an M1a/M14. I almost bought one the other day, but I stopped myself because its some expensive. What are everyones thoughts on the model that one should buy. Specifically, between the standard full size model (22 inch barrel) and the scout squad model (18 inch barrel). I plan on using it for range/marksmanship, etc... just to play with and maybe hog hunting on the land. Thoughts, comments, concerns. I want to know what yall think.

Hi Guys,

Like you, I love Garands and especially the M1A's. I have 2 Garands, have owned 7 of them and scraped up the money to buy a fully loaded M1A. I've had glass bedded, Garands and ones built by nationally known experts. Had one in 7.62 Nato and have really worked with them in competition.

I wanted an M1A for decades! The M1A I bought has a 22" SS match barrel, is bedded and has NM fit parts & sights. Since I'm no stranger to high performance 7.62 rounds, I fed it some wonderfully accurate proven handloads using Match King bullets.

The point I'm going to make is unpleasent and I almost choke on having to say it. After 7 years of high power competition at 200, 300 and 600 yards, a run of the mill black rifle will outshoot the trick M1's and M1A's...no question about it.

The exception is in a heavy 90 degree crosswind where the 223 will curve out of the black and the wind bucking of the 30 cal shines, it's a fact of life that the AR-15 will win.

Even at 600 yards, I'd prefer the AR with 69 grain Match Kings over either of the 30 caliber rifles. If you doubt this, just look at the firing lines of the major matches.

Going one step further and to quote a knowledgeable friend: "It would cost a fortune to make a Garand or M1A shoot as well as a just above average Ar-15."

My 30 cal semi autos are hanger queens and even when shooting a Garand match, I use a 1903A3 as it is allowed as a substitute for the Garand. The 03A3 will shoot rings around a Garand. To quantify the difference, it costs about 30 points to use an M1 rather than an 03A3. At 200 yards, my average score with an 03A3 is 450-460 out of 500. The Garand will score 435.

So....if you just MUST have a Garand or M1A .......go for it. They are wonderful rifles. Just don't expect it to shoot with the plastic rifles.

Flash

 

[Texas1911]

The point I'm going to make is unpleasent and I almost choke on having to say it. After 7 years of high power competition at 200, 300 and 600 yards, a run of the mill black rifle will outshoot the trick M1's and M1A's...no question about it.

The AR can be plenty accurate but I disagree with your "run of the mill" statement. I've shot tons of different ARs in all kinds of calibers and rarely have I seen an unmodified or I should say, non-purpose built, AR15 outshoot a loaded M1A. With handloads I have shot consistent sub-MOA groups with a friends M1A which is an SA loaded model with a GI stock, Bassett mount, and Leupold glass.

Even most factory heavy barrel AR's will not do that consistently. Most are in the 1 - 2 MOA range out of the box.

For what it's worth, I shoot AR's better with the iron sights, mostly because I couldn't get much light out of my M1A's narrow NM aperature. I think the layout of the AR15 is much more user-friendly, and as a result may play some of the difference.

Just my observation from my experience. By the way, what sort of guns are you guys using? What off-the-shelf AR's are factory accurate? I've been thinking of getting a Colt HBAR Match as a good starter AR platform, with the intention of building an SBR off the lower later.

Maybe those shooting the AR's are just better cause the rounds cost half as much... haha.

 

[TriggerTime]

I love my M1A's, but the statement above is basically true when it comes to service rifle competition. The M1A is more complex, more stuff moving around, and more to need repair. Also, there is recoil with the M1A that is almost non-existent with the AR. In the rapid fire sitting, this is hard to compensate for and quickly get back on target. Most of the winners are, and have been, using the AR's. The Army and Marine teams use ARs. My M1A's are accurate and I love them, but I'm going to compete with the AR except for a few all prone matches.

As to off the rack very accurate AR's, I just got a Rock River NM A2 for him to use at Camp Perry with his Army ROTC team this summer. We took it out on Saturday to get the zeros. We started at the bench at 100 just to check the initial elevation. After a little adjustment, he shoot out the center with 5 rounds. We moved to 200 and from prone, after 4 sighters and some elevation adjustments, he put 2 on the X and the next one in the X ring. Same results at 300. Good enough for me.

Good shooting.

 

[TSU45]

I'm sure that they shoot fine. I'm just saying that according to Boston T. Party, they will not have the same expected life as a forged receiver. But to keep that in perspective...we are talking like 30K rounds vs. 50K rounds expected from a forged M14.

So at .60/round...unless you plan on spending more than 1.8 million dollars on .308, the cast will be fine

YMMV

Think you got some extra zeros in there.

 

[Texas42]

Think you got some extra zeros in there.

Only a couple. . . . you sure you don't work in government? maybe in bailout programs?

Just giving you a hard time.

: )

 

[ROGER4314]

"Even most factory heavy barrel AR's will not do that consistently. Most are in the 1 - 2 MOA range out of the box."
======================================================================================
Respectfully, I don't know where the heck you've been reading this information. 2 minutes of angle is 4" at 200 yards. That will blow you into the 8 or 9 ring and you won't be competitive. That just doesn't happen with an AR. Most guys use the A2 with 20" heavy barrel. I am no fan of the AR-15 but it is true. M1a's will not shoot with the Ar-15. I switched to the Black rifles in competition because I wanted to win.

The logical result of the AR superiority in accuracy is seen on the firing lines of 200 yard matches. If you doubt that, just go to the matches to see what's there.

These guys are serious shooters and if an M1A would beat the AR-15, they would be hauling those rifles to the line. Cost has nothing to do with it.

Let's be clear on the comparisons.........Using NRA positions (no rest/support/bipod) and iron sights with purchased ammo.

Flash

 

[wrtanker]

I am the proud owner of an M1A. It is an awesome rifle. There is no doubt that the flat trajectory, light weight, and low recoil of the ARs make them excellent range weapons. However, I didn't buy for competition I bought for field work. The superior target effect of the 7.62 vs the 5.56 and the fact that I can get consistent kills out to 300m with iron sights makes the M1A the best choice for me. I'm a big enough guy that the weight doesn't bother me. The ARs are fun to shoot but for real work I'll take the M1A every time.

 

[Texas1911]

Respectfully, I don't know where the heck you've been reading this information. 2 minutes of angle is 4" at 200 yards.

Sure, and I was pointing out that that's about what a M4 style AR (which is the predominance of ARs on the market now) will do.

The purpose built ARs with heavier barrels will do better, as evident by the usage of them in the competitions. My friends heavy barrel AR will do about 3/4 MOA consistently with a 65+gr. bullet.

 

[ROGER4314]

There is nothing that sets my heart thumping like a beautifully built M1 Garand in 30-06 or M1A 7.62 Nato rifle. Add to that the 1903A3 and you've got the top dogs of the rifle world! Believe me, becoming an advocate of the AR-15 and finding myself siding against the finest rifles ever designed, sticks in my throat.

I shoot the AR's in competition because I want to win. It's not where my heart is.

Flash

 

[Texas1911]

There is nothing that sets my heart thumping like a beautifully built M1 Garand in 30-06 or M1A 7.62 Nato rifle. Add to that the 1903A3 and you've got the top dogs of the rifle world! Believe me, becoming an advocate of the AR-15 and finding myself siding against the finest rifles ever designed, sticks in my throat.

I shoot the AR's in competition because I want to win. It's not where my heart is.

Flash

Sure, I am of the same mindset. I just didn't want people to get the wrong idea... most of your "off the shelf" AR15s aren't sub-MOA guns. The more purpose built target models can be with proper ammo and a good shooter.

 

[markas70]

Just got my M-1A this afternoon, its a scout 2. only 50 rounds thru it and comes with the mount for a scope. Ended up tradeing one of my AK-47s,(Warsa), (NIB) + 400.00. Plus 4 twenty round mags and 250 rounds of ammo. Goes real well next to my M-1 Garand and other AK and a the 2 ARs

 

[Fisherman777]

Just got my M-1A this afternoon, its a scout 2. only 50 rounds thru it and comes with the mount for a scope. Ended up tradeing one of my AK-47s,(Warsa), (NIB) + 400.00. Plus 4 twenty round mags and 250 rounds of ammo. Goes real well next to my M-1 Garand and other AK and a the 2 ARs

Snap a couple of pics!

 

[markas70]

Gezz,I need to proof read before I hit enter. OK,I got the M-1A, 1 10 round mag,4 -20 round mags and 200 rounds for my AK +400 and just 2 30 rounds mags and 200 rounds. Will post some pics in a few days when I get back to town.

 

[markas70]

Snap a couple of pics!

Forgot my camera at the GFs (she lives in SA im in Austin)this weekend,will have to wait till next week for the pics, sorry