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  • texas_teacher

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    I have a friend who is currently being stalked by a very aggressive individual who also holds a valid CHL. How he got this with his mental disorder is another question, but my question is until the time when I buy her her own weapon can she use one that is registered to me in her car and at her home? And if she shoots this guy while he is in the act of a crime against her is there any legal ramification against me or her for the gun being registered in my name and not hers? Thanks.
    Guns International
     

    txinvestigator

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    I have a friend who is currently being stalked by a very aggressive individual who also holds a valid CHL. How he got this with his mental disorder is another question, but my question is until the time when I buy her her own weapon can she use one that is registered to me in her car and at her home? And if she shoots this guy while he is in the act of a crime against her is there any legal ramification against me or her for the gun being registered in my name and not hers? Thanks.


    1. What he is doing that you define as stalking?

    2. What mental disorder does he have?

    3. You don't have any weapons registered to you if you live in Texas.

    4. You can loan her the gun as long as you do not know she is prohibited from possessing one under federal law.

    5. If she is not prohibited from possessing the gun, you would have no criminal liability if she shoots someone in lawful self-defense. Civil is another issue.

    6. Your friend should seek the counsel of a firearms instructor for use of force laws. Texas law is specific about when deadly force can be used, and there is no across the board justification for shooting someone who is "committing a crime against her."

    7. Use of force in Texas is a defense to prosecution, and that is not a defense FROM prosecution. Meaning that she will have to prove she was within the legal use of force.
     

    dcs12345

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    It sounds to me that she needs to get a restraining order on the individual. What that will do to the individual's CHL, I do not know. I cannot think of anything wrong with giving her one of your weapons until she gets her own, unless she is a felon or cannot legally own a firearm. Why don't you just sell her a weapon of yours for $1?
     

    txinvestigator

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    It sounds to me that she needs to get a restraining order on the individual. What that will do to the individual's CHL, I do not know. I cannot think of anything wrong with giving her one of your weapons until she gets her own, unless she is a felon or cannot legally own a firearm. Why don't you just sell her a weapon of yours for $1?

    Restraining orders are useless and not enforceable by the Criminal Justice System.

    If we can get some details, we can perhaps give some more helpful advice.
     

    whit128

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    Step 1, call the police

    Your friend needs to notify law enforcement first and start the paper trail. The fact that she knows this person has a chl tells me that there is more to this than we have been told. If this person is an ex she should contact the county attorney and request a protective order which will suspend the chl and order him to maintain his distance or risk arrest.
     

    texas_teacher

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    Thank you to all who responded. It was not an ex. It was a night school partner who violated her space and took things to far. I've taken everyone's suggestions and so has she. She is currently as I type this filing with the local pd and she now sleeps soundly with a 12 gauge under the bed and a 380 in the nightstand. Hopefully once the paperwork is done on the police end this will all blow over. Thanks for everone's advice and responses.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Thank you to all who responded. It was not an ex. It was a night school partner who violated her space and took things to far.
    What does that mean?
    She is currently as I type this filing with the local pd
    Filing what?
    Hopefully once the paperwork is done on the police end this
    End what? There may be some unrealistic expectations as to just what the police can do. Again, if you will answer my questions we might be able to give you more complete advice.
     

    texas_teacher

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    What does that mean? Filing what? End what? There may be some unrealistic expectations as to just what the police can do. Again, if you will answer my questions we might be able to give you more complete advice.

    Well to keep a long story short it began when she became team members with this guy back in September and because of the curriculum of the school there would be weeks where their team would be meeting until close to 10:30 at night some nights. There was one other member of the group. The guy is a real estate broker that is struggling to find work in this market so he has a lot of spare time in his hands.

    Anyways throught the course I kept warning her about just what she was telling me about this guy because it was obvious this guy wanted more than just teammates. The guy was in his early forties, my friend is 25. Part of the problem is she is gorgeous, not just my opinion but has posed for magazines, etc. Anyways she at first didn't want to break up the group because they were the only group in their courses that ever got anything above an 85.

    Recently she dropped out of the school and he has taken it to a whole new level. He started calling her to a whole new level. Approximately 3 times an hour and not just during normal business hours but until 2 or 3 in the morning. He has driven by her house and left letters in her mailbox and banged on her frontdoor. He constantly texts her and emails her.

    He goes on and on about how she ruined his life and crushed his heart. How he was completely devoted to her and she was just a whore. He threatened to report her to the center for disease control for being the tramp that she is and the std's that she carries. He told her that the world would be a better place if her trampy ass was just removed from the face of it.

    Anyways this afternoon she met with three of the neighborhood patrolmen that the pd sent over and they said through the extremely anal amount of documentation that she kept recording his actions that he could be picked up immediately and charged with a misdameanor. Against what I thought would be best she decided to take the officers' second option and that was they personally called the individual on his cell phone and home phone and finally got him and talked to him and basically told him everything that they had against them (why the police would show their entire hand is beyond my recollection, obviously they don't play poker) and how they had the authority to pick him up immediately.

    This all happened at around 5ish and the officers have stopped by 4 times this evening since then and the cars that patrol that particular neighborhood have the license make and model of his car and have told her they will pick him up on the spot if he is within the neighborhood.
     

    45tex

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    Glad to hear the PD took an interest.
    They can give away their hand as should he be charged he'd receive all that info anyway. The Police contact is now part of the file, or at least the officers notes and will be used against him if he decides to continue. That anal retention is the best thing your friend could have done.
    I don't want to hijack the thread but do you think the Police would have been as interested if she were not model pretty. I hope so, but . . .
     

    whit128

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    Your friend has taken the best course of action. What I find is that many people do not call the police until the situatuion has escalated to a boiling point. Every contact that is made with the police is documented in some form even if it is only an incident which is far better that deadly force advice received from an internet gun forum.
     

    Major Woody

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    Good way to deal with it. If the person continues, he will lose his CHL over this. It almost comes under terroristic threats.
     

    JKTex

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    So the local PD sent out multiple patrols and they took action by contacting him with threats of what they had on him and could charge him with, based solely on her word or what she'd written down?

    Sounds strange but I'll await the upcoming comments from TX and others.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Anyways this afternoon she met with three of the neighborhood patrolmen that the pd sent over and they said through the extremely anal amount of documentation that she kept recording his actions that he could be picked up immediately and charged with a misdameanor.

    Something there is amiss. A person cannot be arrested for a misdemeanor that was not committed in the officers presence or view. The only exception is domestic violence, and this is not DV.

    There is one possible charge I can see based on what you have written;

    Harrassment
    Texas Penal Code
    Sec. 42.07. HARASSMENT. (a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass another, he:
    (1) initiates communication by telephone, in writing, or by electronic communication and in the course of the communication makes a comment, request, suggestion, or proposal that is obscene;
    (2) threatens, by telephone, in writing, or by electronic communication, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm the person receiving the threat, to inflict bodily injury on the person or to commit a felony against the person, a member of his family or household, or his property;
    (3) conveys, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm the person receiving the report, a false report, which is known by the conveyor to be false, that another person has suffered death or serious bodily injury;
    (4) causes the telephone of another to ring repeatedly or makes repeated telephone communications anonymously or in a manner reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass, or offend another;
    (5) makes a telephone call and intentionally fails to hang up or disengage the connection;
    (6) knowingly permits a telephone under the person's control to be used by another to commit an offense under this section; or
    (7) sends repeated electronic communications in a manner reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass, or offend another.

    (c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the actor has previously been convicted under this section.

    What you described is not stalking;

    Sec. 42.072. STALKING. (a) A person commits an offense if the person, on more than one occasion and pursuant to the same scheme or course of conduct that is directed specifically at another person, knowingly engages in conduct, including following the other person, that:
    (1) the actor knows or reasonably believes the other person will regard as threatening:
    (A) bodily injury or death for the other person;
    (B) bodily injury or death for a member of the other person's family or household; or
    (C) that an offense will be committed against the other person's property;
    (2) causes the other person or a member of the other person's family or household to be placed in fear of bodily injury or death or fear that an offense will be committed against the other person's property; and
    (3) would cause a reasonable person to fear:
    (A) bodily injury or death for himself or herself;
    (B) bodily injury or death for a member of the person's family or household; or
    (C) that an offense will be committed against the person's property.
    (b) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree, except that the offense is a felony of the second degree if the actor has previously been convicted under this section.


    Against what I thought would be best she decided to take the officers' second option and that was they personally called the individual on his cell phone and home phone and finally got him and talked to him and basically told him everything that they had against them (why the police would show their entire hand is beyond my recollection, obviously they don't play poker) and how they had the authority to pick him up immediately.
    That is not consistant with any policy I am familiar with, but I can see how the officers would want to make the guy aware he was potentially looking at legal problems.

    This all happened at around 5ish and the officers have stopped by 4 times this evening since then and the cars that patrol that particular neighborhood have the license make and model of his car and have told her they will pick him up on the spot if he is within the neighborhood.

    No, they won't pick him up. They have no justification to do so. For harrassment she would need to file charges, then a warrant would be issued for him. THEN he could be picked up.

    Of course, if he currently has warrants for something else the whole issue changes.

    I wish your friend luck. Do you two date?
     

    Shorts

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    My advice is on the self defense side of it, and that you had supplied her with the means. If I were in this ladie's shoes is, if I had not already, and probably even if I had in the past, is get a refresher course in self defense, both physical confrontation and with a firearm. Having the tools at hand is the first step. But they do no good if the user isn't smooth or certain in what they should and need to be doing with them.

    If she can, get ahold of a private CHL instructor. S/He will be able to show her not only firearms/weapons (keys, pens, anything) handling but also scenarios. Last and certainly not least, she can review the laws with a certified instructor. This will prepare her both skillfully and with confidence that she is doing the right thing. That confidence will make her stronger and more certain.
     

    whit128

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    Something there is amiss. A person cannot be arrested for a misdemeanor that was not committed in the officers presence or view. The only exception is domestic violence, and this is not DV.

    I have made many arrests on misdemeanors that were not commited in my presence using witness statements or evidence of the crime.

    Again the proper course of action was to notify the police in your jurisdiction. I shudder to think what would occur if everybody took the legal advice given over the internet.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Something there is amiss. A person cannot be arrested for a misdemeanor that was not committed in the officers presence or view. The only exception is domestic violence, and this is not DV.

    I have made many arrests on misdemeanors that were not commited in my presence using witness statements or evidence of the crime.

    Can you list the crime and tell me the authority under which you arrest.
     

    texas_teacher

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    So the local PD sent out multiple patrols and they took action by contacting him with threats of what they had on him and could charge him with, based solely on her word or what she'd written down?

    Sounds strange but I'll await the upcoming comments from TX and others.

    Not based on her words but based on the emails that she has printed off, the texts and voicemails she has saved and also the witness statements of the threatening third-party texts the other former group member has re ceived concerning her.

    And in response to a comment made earlier I'm not on her to look for deadly force advice on a forum. The question was pertaining more to gun ownership but thank you for your concern. I do not take lightly the human life.
     

    Shorts

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    And in response to a comment made earlier I'm not on her to look for deadly force advice on a forum. The question was pertaining more to gun ownership but thank you for your concern. I do not take lightly the human life.

    You gave her a shotgun and pistol but made no mention of her ability to safely and effectively utilize them if required. If she wasn't to use them, in order to use force, deadly force if necessary, why did you supply her with guns? Does she know anything pertaining to the legal responsibilities of owning/possessing a firearm in Texas? If not, then yes, she needs "deadly force advice" from an educated forum. First piece of advice she should take to the bank, get training which includes TX gun law education.

    Seeking education about Texas gun laws should be priority when posessing and using a firearm. Failing to do so isn't smart. Again, seek training (private or class instruction) with a certified TX CHL/NRA instructor.
     
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