Stand your ground laws

[Ole Cowboy]

Thought about this a lot after hearing about the movement to kill them off in several states (Florida).

Not sure what they are in Texas, well need to do some research in the next few days to sort out...

That said and after dwelling upon the laws I am strongly in favor, in fact they should be so strong as I need never run from any man (which some of the laws appear to require).

What SYG law does is shift the law to my side.

I am walking down the street to my parked car, 2 men with knives come out of an alley and demand my wallet. I am a runner, running almost ever day up to 10 mi a day and over 200 mi per month. I can turn and clearly out run these guys unless they can run 100 yd in less than 5 sec. I am also carrying!

What do I do?

Some SYG laws require that I run from them!

I have a problem with that, I have to run from 2 bad guys out to steal my wallet and or possibly wound or even kill me. What kind of society requires law abiding citizens to run from criminals???

Since I have a gun in my shoulder holster, I pull it, I tell them to get the hell outta Dodge or they are going to make my day. They charge at me, knives flashing in the light of a on/off neon Vacancy sign at at cheap motel across the street.

I yell stop or I will shoot as I judge the distance they are from me. 'Tiny', who when he gets on the scales it only reads "TILT" is several steps behind rocket man who by the looks of his eyes is being propelled by Methlylene his drug of choice and he needs a fix to ease the pain of what left of his teeth that appear to have been brushed long and hard with a brick coated in chocolate. By now his stale kerosene breath is beginning to fog my glasses as I unload a 44 mag Hydra-Shock into his gut.

Tiny's feet stop but the weight of his gut falls foward and he goes down in a sidewalk face plant. I plant my number 12 boot on the back of his head and tell him to not take another breath and as I call 911 he begins to fart uncontrollably

In some states I am going to jail, don't collect $200, no questions asked, some places I am not.

 

[TheMailMan]

Requiring a law abiding citizen to run from the criminals is giving the criminals more rights than the citizen. In some states you are required to leave your dwelling, if possible, instead of engaging the criminal(s).

I say bullshit. As long as I am minding my own business and not breaking the law I should have no requirement to back down from a criminal.

I'd hazard a guess that most states that don't have a SYG or have castle law are also those states that try the hardest to suppress gun ownership and the carrying of firearms.

 

[busykngt]

I looked into this a few years ago and haven’t done any reading on it recently. As I recall, Wikipedia had a pretty good write up on it at the time (don’t know if it’s still there or not).

It seems a lot of the states that adopted the SYG laws did so, at least initially, with regard to home defense scenarios (inside the home). Folks in various states were being held over for trial when they were victims of home invasions. The rule was meant to help mitigate the need for the homeowner to seek an “escape” out the back door. This tied in and helped supplement the so-called ‘Castle Doctrine’ in states like Texas by rightfully shifting the blame and consequences for illegal aggressive actions onto the perp (where it belonged).

It obviously didn’t take long for the SYG laws to cover scenarios out in public for such things as car jackings, muggings, etc. Especially at a time in our history when states were relaxing handgun carry restrictions via new found respect for the Second Amendment.

It’s important to note that something like a dozen (or more) states still have a “duty to retreat” (must try to escape) on their books. Thus making the defensive use of firearms and deadly force much more problematic for the victims of these crimes.

 

[PhulesAu]

In my opinion..... SYG laws should also bar any legal action against a shooter who has to use deadly force in a justified situation. that's my pipe dream for the week.

 

[busykngt]

In my opinion..... SYG laws should also bar any legal action against a shooter who has to use deadly force in a justified situation. that's my pipe dream for the week.

A few states have written their SYG laws so tough, they effectively have accomplished this. Lawyers in those states still fight tooth-n-nail to get the SYG laws repealed. Again, Texas is one of those states; it’s virtually impossible for the perp (or family members of the perp) to bring a civil suit against a self-defender if the grand jury or a “criminal” trial has found the shooting justified.

But what constitutes “a good shoot” can still be debated. And, unless the Grand Jury decides to no bill, it may still cost the defender a lot of time and money to get to the point in determining it was “legally” a good shoot.

[ETA]: To me, that’s one thing that’s going to make that handicap parking space shooting in Florida so interesting. The guy and initially the sheriff, declared it was a justified use of SYG. But somehow, the shooter is behind bars unable to afford his bail. Was it a “good shoot”? Some people think so, some do not. Ultimately a jury will decide one way or the other.

 

[Sam7sf]

The problem when a state doesn’t have a syg law, is it limits or makes a guy gotta jump threw hoops to legally defend himself. Take Oregon...even if you get car jacked or your house broke into while you’re home, you must respond with force that isn’t greater than the threat. So under the wrong circumstances, you could be tried for murder. Living in said state and being trained in other methods of defense, I’m a pretty patient person. But if we allow criminals to know we tolerate or don’t legally have the nuts to say if you do this no one will care if you die, we have a problem.

If it were up to me I’d allow crackhead hunting permits.

 

[Jarine88]

I believe in SYG, but I think we still need to consider the reasonable use of deadly force. We are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but they should be a legitimate threat of death or bodily harm.

The problem with SYG currently is the result of the recent Florida shooting. The angry shooter instigated the situation, was pushed to the ground and then shot a man with his hands up. To me, that was not a justified shooting.

The scenario above described in the OP should be justified because the two perps had deadly weapons. Should be open and shut.

 

[easy rider]

You break into my home, I'm not waiting to see what weapons you may have.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

You break into my home, I'm not waiting to see what weapons you may have.

Dead men tell no lies...

Some states try to play in 'in kind' threat game. This begs the question as to what is in kind? Guy comes in the house and he has an axe, well I don't have an axe and I learned a long time ago not to take a knife to an axe fight, so what do I reach for? Any gun I can get my hands on and I don't keep them in safes...

But in a court room the perp's lawyer is gonna say that a 44 mag is not in kind, it's overkill therefore I owe him a Jillion $$$ since he is now perm handicapped.

Fact as long as I FEEL my life is or COULD be threatened, then I go with the biggest hammer in the drawer.

 

[easy rider]

Him dead by bullet or me dead by axe.... hmmm... let mull that over.

 

[busykngt]

In the last couple of weeks, I think I recall reading there are fourteen states with no SYG laws or otherwise still have a ‘duty to retreat’ law on their books. Personally, I can’t imagine living in such a state. That’s one reason I think the Texas ‘Castle Doctrine’ is such a wonderful legal tool to protect the homeowner. There can be no excuse for someone busting into my home uninvited. And to have to offer proof you tried everything possible to escape the bad guy, is just beyond my comprehension. That automatically stacks the cards against you, in court.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Him dead by bullet or me dead by axe.... hmmm... let mull that over.

This 26 sec sez it all:

 

[BRD@66]