Stiffling of 1A in Dallas today...

[F350-6]

Wonder how long those guys will be in town. I think I'd like to have one of those flyers. After all, you can't really have serious talk about the assassination without bringing up the conspiracy theory.

I picked up the re-prints of the Dallas and Ft Worth paper from the day after the shooting that have been on sale recently. A conspiracy pamphlet would be a nice addition.

 

[Texasjack]

First, I really wish the Kennedy worshipers would go ahead and die off so they will quit trying to make martyrs out of one of the sleaziest families ever to walk the face of the earth.

As for conspiracy, I think Oswald did it. I remember watching a pretty well done TV documentary on the assassination where they interviewed people involved, directly and indirectly. One of the former Marines that served with Oswald said he couldn't understand what kind of a messed up person would shoot the president. Then he heard that Oswald was the suspect and he said, "Yeah, that's exactly the guy who would do such a thing."

As for freedom of speech, there have to be some rules that apply - just to keep people safe, if nothing else. But I will agree that the government seems to think The Constitution only applies when it's convenient for them.

To that end, Alex Jones does occasionally expose some of the very bad things going on in this country. I don't follow the guy because, honestly, I think he's just as bad as the leftists at taking a small amount of facts and using them to produce a distorted picture of the situation.

Lastly, we should thank TXI for showing up. I'm sure I'm not the only one who got a chuckle out of the predictability of that.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

The distance was less than 100yds at which any man, woman, or child could effectively hit a man sized target.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Really hard to find evidence of this (considering hardly anyone has been allowed to look out his snipers nest), but supposedly there was a huge oak tree in the way of his shot that day, sure as hell doesn't help things. Also from his "defector" days in the Soviet Union (do you really think they would have let a true defector back into the US if he wasn't CIA affiliated), many people that lived with him there also claim he was a terrible shot. Then add that (and I have not personally shot one) Carcanos are supposed to have a rather sticky slow bolt which makes his timing near impossible.

First, I really wish the Kennedy worshipers would go ahead and die off so they will quit trying to make martyrs out of one of the sleaziest families ever to walk the face of the earth.

I wouldn't paint him out to be a saint, but IMO he said alot of good things and even did a few very good things (stopping thermonuclear war as well as trying to end the Fed monopoly on printing money). Ya he was a terrible family man but he sure as hell was leaps and bounds better than the rest of his ilk. Regardless I know he would abhor the secrecy surrounding his death. There are still plenty of files that are still being kept out of the public eye. I will wholeheartedly agree that a free and open society is opposed to secrecy.

As for conspiracy, I think Oswald did it. I remember watching a pretty well done TV documentary on the assassination where they interviewed people involved, directly and indirectly. One of the former Marines that served with Oswald said he couldn't understand what kind of a messed up person would shoot the president. Then he heard that Oswald was the suspect and he said, "Yeah, that's exactly the guy who would do such a thing."

About as anecdotal of evidence as some of the conspiracy evidence, so ya I don't see the point in that.

As for freedom of speech, there have to be some rules that apply - just to keep people safe, if nothing else. But I will agree that the government seems to think The Constitution only applies when it's convenient for them.

Do I really have to quote Ben Franklin? I know you know the quote.

To that end, Alex Jones does occasionally expose some of the very bad things going on in this country. I don't follow the guy because, honestly, I think he's just as bad as the leftists at taking a small amount of facts and using them to produce a distorted picture of the situation.

Does Alex sometimes make wild assumptions? Of course, but regardless he has been dead right on alot of things, such as him screaming about internal spying going on for more than a decade before Snowden's revelations. Mainstream media certainly ain't a bunch of holier than thoughs.

2nd, the OPs allegations have zero support or link to any evidence. The OP wrote,

The immidiete events that day were being broadcast live. Too many witnesses there to make me think Alex staged something that elaborate and I specifically stated you can always goto infowars.com if you dare but I know people like you wont touch it with a 20ft pole.

Ehhhh. People who can't self regulate end up getting regulated.

And while I hold no emotional attachment to the event a lot of people do, and that's an a hole thing to do...

Let the crazy people grieve.

And you can go do your conspiracy protests later somewhere else...

Where exactly do you propose they do it. If you feel passionately about something and wanted to spread the word on it, would you relegate yourself to protesting it when nobody is watching or when the whole world is watching?

I'm just wondering why the conspiracy crowd group has to ruin a nice event.

Have your theories, and get the word out. But why ruin an event? Reminds me of WBC at Chris Kyle's funeral. Or Atheist protesting the Manger at the local courthouse lawn. If I was visiting the ceremony down there and some protestors were handing out pamphlets to derail the somber intention, I'd be annoyed. Probably throw the pamphlet in the nearest trash and consider the protestors jerks and not give their position another thought. In fact, that irritation and no tact behavior would detract from their message.


This is why we don't have nice things.

I wouldn't call parroting of a story that less than 10% of the public believes by the mainstream media, a nice event. It wasn't even like they were honoring his death. They just got up there and made some sterile feel good commments. Alex and the crowd really didn't even do that much bullhorning and they were even respectful during the moment of silence there. The way you talk is exactly how lefties talk when we as conservatives in general protest something.

 

[M. Sage]

Really hard to find evidence of this (considering hardly anyone has been allowed to look out his snipers nest),...

I'm pretty sure you can look out that particular window when you take the tour... About the Museum | The Sixth Floor Museum

 

[benenglish]

I'm pretty sure you can look out that particular window when you take the tour...

I spent quite a while standing there, myself. The shot was not difficult because despite the fact that the target was moving, the relative motion of the target was minimal. I'm not much of a rifleman and I could have made those shots easily with a semi-auto. With a slick bolt action, I think I could do it with not too much practice.

 

[M. Sage]

I spent quite a while standing there, myself. The shot was not difficult because despite the fact that the target was moving, the relative motion of the target was minimal. I'm not much of a rifleman and I could have made those shots easily with a semi-auto. With a slick bolt action, I think I could do it with not too much practice.

Yep. The car wasn't moving too fast, it was moving pretty much straight away from the window IIRC, at fairly close range and with a scoped rifle. Even with irons, it'd be doable...

Looks like Carcanos can be run fairly quickly.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

I'm pretty sure you can look out that particular window when you take the tour... About the Museum | The Sixth Floor Museum

The only time I went there, I remember it being roped off. That was when I was only 12 or so though, perhaps that has changed.

Also another detractor about the Carcano was the millsurp ammo used in it was rather inconsistent. Granted I have no clue if Oswald used millsurp in it (can't seem to find any mention of the source of his rounds) but here's an excerpt from Wiki:

At least one small arms authority noted inconsistencies in powder types in arsenal-loaded 6.5×52mm military ammunition, often with different powder types and ammunition lots intermixed within a single clip of ammunition.[SUP][1][/SUP] The practice of intermixing powder types and ammunition lots in clipped rifle ammunition was generally avoided by arsenals of other nations, as it generally resulted in varying bullet velocities and excessive bullet dispersion on the target.
After reports of inadequate performance at both short and long ranges[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] during the campaigns in Italian North Africa (1924-1934), and the Second Italo-Abyssinian War (1934), the Italian army introduced a new short rifle in 1938, the Modello 1938, together with a new cartridge in 7.35×51mm caliber.

 

[benenglish]

Does Alex sometimes make wild assumptions? Of course, but regardless he has been dead right on alot of things, such as him screaming about internal spying going on for more than a decade before Snowden's revelations.

Two things.

First, Alex is no great seer because he knew about domestic spying a long time ago. Your basic IT geek who read Slashdot regularly knew about internal spying for a decade prior to Snowden, too. It's irritating that Alex promotes himself as having some special insight a long time ago; it's irritating because it's not true. His insight was not special, not by a long shot. Lots of us in the crypto-/cypher-/insert-your-own-jargon-world knew a great deal more about what was going on 10 years ago than most people understand even today. Snowden just brought it (barely) into the mainstream consciousness by leaking info in such a way as to piss off selected groups and foreign powers who would then continue squawking until the mainstream media was forced to pay a little attention. Alex can rightly claim ZERO credit for raising the alarm about excess spying.

Second, you're right that Alex is right on some things. He's right on lots of things, actually, because he's a smart guy. The problem is that he also does crazy crap like a documentary on how the movie Prometheus is actually an accurate explanation of the secret religion of the Illuminati who surreptitiously rule the world. (For those who don't know - I did NOT make that up, nutty as it sounds.)

You get two choices with Alex. Sometimes he's right but unoriginal. Sometimes he's crackers.

Given that, I recognize no good reason to tune him in. YMMV.

 

[M. Sage]

The only time I went there, I remember it being roped off. That was when I was only 12 or so though, perhaps that has changed.

Also another detractor about the Carcano was the millsurp ammo used in it was rather inconsistent. Granted I have no clue if Oswald used millsurp in it (can't seem to find any mention of the source of his rounds) but here's an excerpt from Wiki:

Ok, so presuming the "if" of surplus ammo, how much inconsistency are we talking about, and is that enough to make much difference at the 80ish yards that these shots were taken? I'm going to use the steel-cased shit rifle ammo available today as an example, because you can tell just by ear that stuff isn't consistent. 5-6" groups at 100 yards. Still good enough to hit someone in the head at the kind of distance we're talking about.

And that's if he'd loaded the clip with mixed head stamps.

 

[Vaquero]

Still don't excuse freedom of speech being denied.

 

[Shorts]

I wouldn't call parroting of a story that less than 10% of the public believes by the mainstream media, a nice event. It wasn't even like they were honoring his death. They just got up there and made some sterile feel good commments. Alex and the crowd really didn't even do that much bullhorning and they were even respectful during the moment of silence there. The way you talk is exactly how lefties talk when we as conservatives in general protest something.

Don't get butt burnt.

There's a time and place for everything. When folks are going to an event to hear one thing but are annoyed by the side promoting another, possibly being abrasive about it, it isn't going to be heard. The conspiracy group ends up looking like cookoo bad guys and their message is dismissed. Poor delivery doesn't ever help the message.

Don't get sideways, take the criticism and make it better.

 

[Vaquero]

How long were the "legitimate" people on site?
There just ain't enough hours in the day to have another "permit" honored?
This "free speech zone" crap sounds like bullshit to me.
Gun free zones. Do we believe and support the Constitution and Amendments or not?

 

[Shorts]

The way you talk is exactly how lefties talk when we as conservatives in general protest something.

I wanted to pull this on out on it's own. But you are right.

Can I ask where you were when the WBC was being pushed back from Chris Kyle's memorial service?

I was there that day. Lots of updates going around, last minute changes to schedules and that sort of thing. Several day before the WBC popped up and said they were coming to protest. And they did. But I took absolute great pleasure in the fact that their message that day was effectively ineffective. They had specific requirements to stay in their free speech zone "way over there". Away from the family, friends and folks who came to honor the fallen man. I would imagine they were very unhappy about the location they had to protest from. Technically they were able to exercise their right to protest. (I do recognize there were conditions placed on it. I recall a last minute law pushed through that required them to be X-amount of distance from IIRC the property of the venue.)

Maybe I don't really mean yes when I say I support the 1A...unless it serves my cause? If I really supported 1A then I'd be complaining about WBCs treatment on their behalf. But I'm not.

So where does that put me?

I do know I don't want to be denied my rights. In turn others can't be denied theirs. How hard I fight for that may be influenced by the subject it is about. It makes a pretty good case to call me selfish. I don't think I am a good person for a lot of the fault's I have.

In this particular incident, I don't have a position the JFK assassination. So the message one way or another doesn't sway me. If you want textbook, of course all rights should not be infringed. Quite simply I'm not going out of my way to defend the group or the event. I don't know what happened when or how who did what. Just don't care about the message. And because of that my initial post speaking generically about message delivery and receptiveness of the crowd. Let whoever have their thing. The other side can have theirs somewhere else. Unless the protestors aren't validated unless they have an event? WBC message can't be validated unless they are protesting funerals. Otherwise, when else are they in the news?

I'm not going to be bullied about this. If you are accusing me of not supporting 1A rights then you ought to take a look at yourself too. All of you. I'm not defending or promoting anything the WBC does. I wish they'd all disappear and never emotionally torment another grieving family again. But if you're questioning me about not supporting our rights you sure as hell had better say that you stood up to ensure the WBC had access to protest Chris Kyle's funeral.

 

[rushthezeppelin]

Shorts, please answer this for me. I have not actually looked at it, but was the venue for Chris's funeral held on private land or public? If it was public then their free speech was most certainly stifled. If it was a private cemetery then the owner of that cemetery had every right to push them out. My biggest beef with the whole situation is that Dealey Plaza is on public land, therefore it should be open and free for everyone to express their views no matter what event is going on there. And on top of that permits should not be required to participate in this free speech. The only free speech zone I recognize is public land. Private land, do w/e you want to limit the speech of others you disagree with. As the saying goes, your rights end where mine begin.

 

[just jk]

a lot of people in this country really don't have a good legal grasp or understanding of the scotus rulings on "free speech" - what is protected and what is not - NOT ALL speech is protected

i'll just say this.....there's an old saying that you cant yell fire in a crowded movie theater and call it free speech

Alex Jones is a retarded idiot as far as i'm concerned - and if you latch on to him - you get what you pay for

i really dont mean to offend anybody with that - it's just how i feel


as for the memorial service - frankly it wasnt the place for the fringe folks

 

[M. Sage]

a lot of people in this country really don't have a good legal grasp or understanding of the scotus rulings on "free speech" - what is protected and what is not - NOT ALL speech is protected

i'll just say this.....there's an old saying that you cant yell fire in a crowded movie theater and call it free speech

Alex Jones is a retarded idiot as far as i'm concerned - and if you latch on to him - you get what you pay for

i really dont mean to offend anybody with that - it's just how i feel


as for the memorial service - frankly it wasnt the place for the fringe folks

It comes directly from an old Supreme Court decision, and is actually an example of how you can hurt (and kill) people with words. Yelling "fire" in a theater isn't illegal. Yelling "fire" and causing a stampede that hurts people is.

 

[winchster]

Yep. The car wasn't moving too fast, it was moving pretty much straight away from the window IIRC, at fairly close range and with a scoped rifle. Even with irons, it'd be doable...

Looks like Carcanos can be run fairly quickly.

3 shots on a moving target downhill and away in under 6 seconds using that crappy bolt?
Some of the best shooters in the world have tried to replicate that and failed.

 

[just jk]

it's really only 2 shots in 6 seconds

the first one is already in the tube and ready to go - once he sent it down range - the 6 seconds applies to the 2d and 3d shot

 

[M. Sage]

it's really only 2 shots in 6 seconds

the first one is already in the tube and ready to go - once he sent it down range - the 6 seconds applies to the 2d and 3d shot

Yep, timer starts when the first one leaves the tube. Cycle the action twice in 6 seconds? Totally doable. Not sayin' luck doesn't factor in (because it always does to some degree when you start pulling the trigger), but there it is.

 

[TheDan]

he said alot of good things and even did a few very good things (stopping thermonuclear war as well as trying to end the Fed monopoly on printing money).

I had heard that many time as well, and believed it until I did alittle research on the subject... What he did was transfer the power to print silver certificates, which had been around since 1878, to an un-elected bureaucrat (Secretary of the Treasury) and asked congress to phase out silver certificates in favor of Federal Reserve notes.

Does this sound like a guy that wants to curtail the Federal Reserve's monopoly on currency, or expand it?

I again urge a revision in our silver policy to reflect the status of silver as a metal for which there is an expanding industrial demand. Except for its use in coins, silver serves no useful monetary function.
In 1961, at my direction, sales of silver were suspended by the Secretary of the Treasury. As further steps, I recommend repeal of those Acts that oblige the Treasury to support the price of silver; and repeal of the special 50-percent tax on transfers of interest in silver and authorization for the Federal Reserve System to issue notes in denominations of $1, so as to make possible the gradual withdrawal of silver certificates from circulation and the use of the silver thus released for coinage purposes. I urge the Congress to take prompt action on these recommended changes.

It's unfortunate we're talking about Kennedy or Oswald at all in this thread. Seems like this thread should be more focused on the events in Dealey Plaza.

I'm just wondering why the conspiracy crowd group has to ruin a nice event.

Have your theories, and get the word out. But why ruin an event? Reminds me of WBC at Chris Kyle's funeral. Or Atheist protesting the Manger at the local courthouse lawn. If I was visiting the ceremony down there and some protestors were handing out pamphlets to derail the somber intention, I'd be annoyed. Probably throw the pamphlet in the nearest trash and consider the protestors jerks and not give their position another thought. In fact, that irritation and no tact behavior would detract from their message.

So because you're annoyed at their message it's ok for the state to forcibly remove them from a public place where they were told they could demonstrate? I get pretty annoyed at protesters in general and think the westboro baptist clowns are down right repugnant, but there's quite a bit of difference between the WBC being drowned out by several biker's exercising their free speech with strait pipes, and the conspiracy nuts being told they can demonstrate in a certain spot and then the police lining up shoulder to shoulder and physically shoving them out.

The hardest part about freedom is letting the other guy have his.