Straw Purchase ??

[2Many]

I have a question about what would be an illegal sale.

Scenario is this :
I Want to sell a handgun FTF in TX.
Potential buyer contacts me and wants me to ship.
I pass on the offer because I don't want the hassle.
Potential buyer then says he has a stepson in TX who can buy it for him.

The question:
Assuming the I have no reson to believe that the stepson cant buy or own a handgun in TX, is this scenario an illegal sale as a straw purchase?

I appreciate any input.

 

[Ranger60]

Welll, since you "know" it is for someone other than the purchaser, then by definition it is a "straw" purchase.

When I was dealer, I had a customer fail NICS, offered to have his son do the buy, I refused, even though the person was well known to me, he later cleared the "problem" and made the purchase.

Now, that is from a dealer standpoint, I am not sure what the ruling would be on a private sale, assuming you believe the purchaser to be legally able to own a handgun in Texas.

At the very minimum, should you go through with this, would be to get a bill of sale and a copy of the purchaser's Driver's License.

 

[DCortez]

If it doesn't smell 100% right, I'd walk. Unless you are wealthy and have nothing better to do than pay lawyers, sit in a courtroom, and possibly be the apple of some inmate's eye.

 

[texas_teacher]

If it doesn't smell 100% right, I'd walk.

+1

 

[rsayloriii]

Strongly agree ... don't do it if you're not 100% sure about it.

 

[majormadmax]

OK, let's think this out...but I'm not a lawyer so just take it as one person's breakdown of the situation...

First, a straw purchase is "any purchase whereby the purchaser is knowingly acquiring an item or service for someone who is, for whatever reason, unable to purchase the item or service themselves."

So if the reason they are having someone else buy is not because they are unable to, but because you aren't willing to ship it, is not the same thing!

Therefore, either way I don't think it is a straw purchase on your account as for one, you were not purchasing the firearm but selling it; and as long as you are selling it to a legitimate buyer, you are good to go.

It is only a straw purchase for the buyer if they intended to sell or give it to someone who is not legally to own the weapon.

However, if they bought it with the intent to legally ship/sell it to someone in another state and who is legally able to own firearms, and were only doing so because you did not want to ship it, I believe then it would not be a stray purchase.

Regardless of it all, I would always avoid any sale that makes you uncomfortable!

 

[Dawico]

Is the buyer out of state or not a resident of Texas? I think that is important information. Or is it just the fact that you don't want to ship, like from El Paso to Houston?

 

[biglucky]

Are you an FFL? If not does a straw purchase provision even apply to you? Just ask the person buying the gun from you if they are legally able to own and purchase a firearm. If they say yes then you are covered. I mean I am not a lawyer..... but never before these forums have I ever seen so many people try so hard not so sell something that they wanted to sell....

 

[2Many]

Well I passed on this deal but to answer Dawico's question. The person who contacted me to buy is out of state. When I reaffirmed may advertised statement that I wanted to do a FTF only, he offered his stepson who is in TX as the buyer.

I have no reason to believe that either the original contact or his stepson is ineligible. But in all of the reading I have done on this subject I have not seen anything to make me feel like it wasn't possible for me to be unknowingly committing a technical violation of the law. I jumped out here looking for a warm, fuzzy and haven't found it so I passed on the offer.

 

[Hawghauler]

If it doesn't smell 100% right, I'd walk. Unless you are wealthy and have nothing better to do than pay lawyers, sit in a courtroom, and possibly be the apple of some inmate's eye.

+10

 

[res1b3uq]

If you shipped it out of state, you would have to ship it to an FFL of his choice, and have a copy of his license.

 

[Dawico]

If he agreed to pay all extra expenses and you shipped to his FFL, I would have done it. But I guess it all depends on the item and the interest in it. If it wasn't going to sell very quickly then yeah. But I know shipping a handgun can be a pain.

 

[Hawghauler]

I knew a man who ran a small general store in Vermont that sold guns along with everything else. He let an easy sale with a reasonable profit cloud his judgement and he took a chance on an out of state sale. This was about 35 years ago. He spent about two years in the slammer and it was a well rehearsed set up.

 

[biglucky]

I knew a man who ran a small general store in Vermont that sold guns along with everything else. He let an easy sale with a reasonable profit cloud his judgement and he took a chance on an out of state sale. This was about 35 years ago. He spent about two years in the slammer and it was a well rehearsed set up.

And I bet he had an FFL.... The same rules do not apply to people selling from their personal collections.

 

[Hawghauler]

And I bet he had an FFL.... The same rules do not apply to people selling from their personal collections.

He was a dealer.

 

[Dawico]

And I bet he had an FFL.... The same rules do not apply to people selling from their personal collections.

Are you saying people can sell across state lines without an FFL? I believe that to be wrong, but have no proof. I also must ask about "gifting" across state lines from family to family.

 

[Hawghauler]

Are you saying people can sell across state lines without an FFL? I believe that to be wrong, but have no proof. I also must ask about "gifting" across state lines from family to family.

I don't know why anyone can't gift a gun to a friend or family anywhere in our 50 states. As long as the person can legally own a gun, you should be able to give it to them. I have been given guns before from friends and family from out of state. (I can't speak for Texas, I'm from Idaho).

In the past I have advertised a couple firearms for private sale in the newspaper and sold them for $ to the people who showed up at my door. There was no law stating I had to ask name, address, or anything. I think the buyers name was Mr Cash. If the persons had identified themselves as someone that might not be able to buy I would not have sold. The real crime is I wish I still had those guns.

 

[jordanmills]

Well I passed on this deal but to answer Dawico's question. The person who contacted me to buy is out of state. When I reaffirmed may advertised statement that I wanted to do a FTF only, he offered his stepson who is in TX as the buyer.

I have no reason to believe that either the original contact or his stepson is ineligible. But in all of the reading I have done on this subject I have not seen anything to make me feel like it wasn't possible for me to be unknowingly committing a technical violation of the law. I jumped out here looking for a warm, fuzzy and haven't found it so I passed on the offer.

It sounds entirely on the level. You're not required to check anything or ask any questions, you just aren't allowed to sell if you believe the ultimate purchaser to be ineligible to buy the firearm.

From everything I know, it's, legal to sell to one person who gives/sells it to someone else who can legally own it.

I am not a lawyer, etc.