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  • Texas42

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    Speed has a very big effect on wounding, moreso than sectional density. That's why rounds like .204 Ruger, .223 Remington, and others are effective.

    Sectional density just translates into inertia. Speed equates quickly into energy, which is delivered via hydraulic shock on the body. That's why when you hit a jack rabbit with a .204 Ruger in the chest, it's head shoots about 10' in the air and it's chest cavity turns into pink mist and meaty bit shrapnel. Shoot the same rabbit with a .45 or 9mm and all you get is a nice 1" hole. Both are effective in their own way.

    Birdshot is just not effective because it lacks inertia (low mass which means poor sectional density), and sufficient velocity and geometry to create hydraulic shock. It's like shooting someone with a pellet gun 300 times, LOL.

    Hit center mass, odds are the person would die from all the holes and overall trauma, but it wouldn't be immediate.

    I would not recommend bird shot beyond shooting someone in the face. A face shot would blind someone, if not kill them. This is why some guides will tell you to load birdshot as the first round against dangerous animals like bears; for the same purpose, blinding it, while you unload slugs into it.

    My typing kind of came out wrong. I know speed is important. I was trying to say that because of the mass of bird shot, the relative speed of hot load and standard loads is rather inconsequential.
     

    texas_teacher

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    I used to have bookmarked a website that had all sorts of defensive loads for shotguns... anybody have a URL on that site?... and does anyone know if they offer 20 gauge rounds or just 12 gauge...
     

    Hoji

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    Judging by your avatar Texas42, I take it you are a Firefly fan? I love that show, just wish there was more than one season. :)

    Wednesday night Serenity is being shown outside at Central Market North.

    At least i think that is what I heard on the radio.
     

    Big country

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    Like the other folks said, use bird shot if you want to. It is all up to you what goes in that HD shotgun. If you use bird shot go for the face and keep going till the gun is empty or they fall down, and if they still want to fight give them a butt stroke and Yell (talk loudly) at them saying you are calling the police and they will bring an ambulance.
     

    dee

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    I don't even own a hd shotgun have no desire for one all of my shotguns are sporting guns my pistol is a defense gun.
     

    Big country

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    I don't even own a hd shotgun have no desire for one all of my shotguns are sporting guns my pistol is a defense gun.
    Yeah me to. The shotgun's I have all have a birdie barrel on em and the pistol has Hydra shocks in it.
    I fill my pistol mag up and put one more in the chamber for a reason.
     

    Texas42

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    dee, do you live in TX? I thought you only wanted to use expanding FMJ's if you had to (state law against JHP's), thought I really don't know much about them. How do they shoot?
     

    texas_teacher

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    Yeah me to. The shotgun's I have all have a birdie barrel on em and the pistol has Hydra shocks in it.
    I fill my pistol mag up and put one more in the chamber for a reason.

    I have a sawed off side by side 20 gauge and my skeeting Mossberg Maverick. I guess in a situation I'd also choose to also grab my XD too. Probably both and see how much lead could get emptied. You never know though
     

    Big country

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    Mine has Federal Expanding FMJ's plus I have 2 100lbs dogs someone has to go through first.
    Rodiesian Ridge backs right? I would not want to fight just one of those in the dark let alone two!

    dee, do you live in TX? I thought you only wanted to use expanding FMJ's if you had to (state law against JHP's), thought I really don't know much about them. How do they shoot?
    It is a federal thing, has to do with the Geneva convention I think. Some security guards on some federal posts are required to carry the fmj's. And if you have a gun that is temperamental about feeding jhp's (like the Hydra Shocks) than it will likely feed the fmj's.
     

    dee

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    dee, do you live in TX? I thought you only wanted to use expanding FMJ's if you had to (state law against JHP's), thought I really don't know much about them. How do they shoot?

    Yea I live in TX I bought a box when I got my Kimber and like them alot. Shot some into some soft clay aroound a stock tank. They expanded very very well better than the hydrashocks did which is why they stay in the gun when its on home defense duty. I would post a pic up of the expanded bullets but the wife threw them away cause to her they were junk.
     

    Big country

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    Yea I live in TX I bought a box when I got my Kimber and like them alot. Shot some into some soft clay aroound a stock tank. They expanded very very well better than the hydrashocks did which is why they stay in the gun when its on home defense duty. I would post a pic up of the expanded bullets but the wife threw them away cause to her they were junk.
    This is how things work in my house. I'm always telling my Fiance "no don't throw that away I'm keeping it" And she just looks at me like- why? So I tell her it is for sentimental reasons and she just throws them away while at work or fishing.
     

    DCortez

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    This is how things work in my house. I'm always telling my Fiance "no don't throw that away I'm keeping it" And she just looks at me like- why? So I tell her it is for sentimental reasons and she just throws them away while at work or fishing.


    Even if you said, "because, that's why", she'd hide it for a month. If you didn't miss it, it would make it's way towards the trash.
     

    HawaiiGuy

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    For best flextibility in selected a variety of force rounds, Saiga AK47 Shotgun has a lot to be said. Hard to beat

    The 5 and 10 rounders Box Magazines which can come in clear for easy ID give mulitplechoces of round order

    The is concept has be prooven in IPSC Shotgun when course requiremnts require different types of ammo.

    But yeh, stagger em. Makes sens in a lot of Scenarios

    If you want even more options you can change mags easily if conditions change.
    With practice most skill shooters can change mags in about 2 second, Racers about a half second or more faster.

    One of Gun Dealer I know uses the concept in stereo. Two loaded safely hidden Saigas are his defense weapons on each end of store. Each Saiga has multiple mags and loads for what is necesary.
     
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