Tell us something we don't know....

[Coop45]

Japan is set to be the largest user of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, with plans to purchase 147 F-35A and F-35B aircraft. The largest user, of course, will be the US military with a mix of F-35A (USAF), F-35B (USMC) and F-35C (US Navy) aircraft totaling 3,443 examples, and the #3 user will be the UK with 137.

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The 35B will go 1200 mph and they say it is a good for close air support. LOL!

 

[ZX9RCAM]

there are no snakes in Ireland.

Oops....

 

[General Zod]

The 35B will go 1200 mph and they say it is a good for close air support. LOL!

With current weapons, they're successfully using B-52s and B-1B's for CAS. It's no longer as much of a specialty mission. Thankfully the Air Force has given up on the pipe dream of replacing A-10's with F-35's...for now. The Marines, however, will be employing F-35B's in place of their Harriers.

You do realize it can fly slower than 1200 mph also, right?

 

[IXLR8]

With current weapons, they're successfully using B-52s and B-1B's for CAS. It's no longer as much of a specialty mission. Thankfully the Air Force has given up on the pipe dream of replacing A-10's with F-35's...for now. The Marines, however, will be employing F-35B's in place of their Harriers.

You do realize it can fly slower than 1200 mph also, right?

Didn’t they have a problem melting the stealth coatings if it is supersonic for more than 60 seconds on the F-35? It requires a depot level inspection before resuming combat missions.

Supersonic speeds could cause big problems for the F-35′s stealth coating

Supersonic flight at the edge of the F-35 jet's flight envelope could cause structural damage or degrade its stealth coating, warn documents exclusively obtained by Defense News.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Glenn B]

there are no snakes in Ireland.

Wrong. There were and most likely still are imported captive snakes in Ireland - like the Puff Adder that bit its owner: https://www.foxnews.com/world/ireland-first-venomous-snakebite Now had you said, there are no naturally occuring snakes in Ireland, you probably would have been right on the money.

ETA: just saw someone beat me to it.

 

[Coop45]

With current weapons, they're successfully using B-52s and B-1B's for CAS. It's no longer as much of a specialty mission. Thankfully the Air Force has given up on the pipe dream of replacing A-10's with F-35's...for now. The Marines, however, will be employing F-35B's in place of their Harriers.

You do realize it can fly slower than 1200 mph also, right?

Yes, the F4B would go 700mph and when it was splashing napalm around a Skyraider would have been a God sent.

 

[F350-6]

You do realize it can fly slower than 1200 mph also, right?

Sure, but what's the ammo capactiy of it's CAS gun? Isn't that kinda important? Doesn't it only hold about as much ammo as the average grunt carries? A couple of hundred rounds and it's done with a cyclic rate in the thousands. One strafing run isn't exactly close air support.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Sure, but what's the ammo capactiy of it's CAS gun? Isn't that kinda important? Doesn't it only hold about as much ammo as the average grunt carries? A couple of hundred rounds and it's done with a cyclic rate in the thousands. One strafing run isn't exactly close air support.

I love a good strafe, but generally speaking, a gun in the fixed-wing CAS fight isn’t tactically relevant any more. Don’t get me wrong, it’s cool and one of the last remaining in your face/manly tactics left, but risk averse politicians have written it out of the playbook, especially for the F-35. Effective range on the cannon puts the airframe inside ground-based threat ranges for too long during ingress, employment, and egress.

The F-35 gun is a 25mm cannon that’s internally mounted in the A-models and pod-mounted on the Bs and Cs solely to fill a paper requirement to have a gun for CAS mission. It was always intended to plink tanks with smart bombs.

 

[prisondoc]

The Ford 239 Flathead was replaced by the 239 Y-Block in 1954.


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[Aus_Schwaben]

9mm Luger is older (1902) than the .45 ACP (1905).

Luger submitted three of their pistols in .45 ACP caliber to compete with the Colt 1911 when the Army was seeking a replacement for the .38 revolvers.

Mixing a little hash oil with your floor wax will confuse the devil out of a drug dog.

 

[Coop45]

I love a good strafe, but generally speaking, a gun in the fixed-wing CAS fight isn’t tactically relevant any more. Don’t get me wrong, it’s cool and one of the last remaining in your face/manly tactics left, but risk averse politicians have written it out of the playbook, especially for the F-35. Effective range on the cannon puts the airframe inside ground-based threat ranges for too long during ingress, employment, and egress.

The F-35 gun is a 25mm cannon that’s internally mounted in the A-models and pod-mounted on the Bs and Cs solely to fill a paper requirement to have a gun for CAS mission. It was always intended to plink tanks with smart bombs.

Politicians aren't often found around hostiles. A gun is more effective when the enemy is close enough a M79 is just a big slug. So the F35B is too valuable to fly CAS missions. LOL! More valuable than a company of grunts? This will help the grunts as much as those non shooting M16's in 67.

 

[prisondoc]

The first man to die in the American Revolution was a stevedore.


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[General Zod]

Yes, the F4B would go 700mph and when it was splashing napalm around a Skyraider would have been a God sent.

Napalm seems like a spectacularly bad idea for CAS, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was done. These days, though, there's GBU-53 Small Diameter Bombs that can target the specific window of a truck you want to destroy from 35000 feet and take out anything from infantry formations to main battle tanks. They've put guidance packages on 2.75 inch Hydra rockets to make them individually targetable. There's more options now for close air support from a variety of platforms, and like I said earlier, there's still A-10's, AC-130s, Apaches and AH-1Z Vipers (apparently it's no longer a SuperCobra) for slogging it out in the mud.

 

[Coop45]

Napalm seems like a spectacularly bad idea for CAS, though it wouldn't surprise me if it was done. These days, though, there's GBU-53 Small Diameter Bombs that can target the specific window of a truck you want to destroy from 35000 feet and take out anything from infantry formations to main battle tanks. They've put guidance packages on 2.75 inch Hydra rockets to make them individually targetable. There's more options now for close air support from a variety of platforms, and like I said earlier, there's still A-10's, AC-130s, Apaches and AH-1Z Vipers (apparently it's no longer a SuperCobra) for slogging it out in the mud.

You should try it. Napalm is freaking scary stuff and it ws used alot for CAS. BTW we were discussing Marine CAS.

 

[General Zod]

BTW we were discussing Marine CAS.

Funny, I don't remember anyone specifying that we were discussing the Marines exclusively. I know I didn't. Anyway, the Marines will have F-35Bs (with the questionable gun pod), AH-1Z's and probably quite a few F/A-18s. Maybe in a couple of decades they'll finally get SuperHornets.

 

[Coop45]

Funny, I don't remember anyone specifying that we were discussing the Marines exclusively. I know I didn't. Anyway, the Marines will have F-35Bs (with the questionable gun pod), AH-1Z's and probably quite a few F/A-18s. Maybe in a couple of decades they'll finally get SuperHornets.

The MEU is an offspring of the old BLT with added power. Recent wars have an SLF going ashore when everybody is already there. So all the stuff you mentioned is already in place to provide CAS. A MEU in reality is a self contained landing force and it's CAS comes from what is aboard it's aircraft carrier.

 

[General Zod]

The MEU is an offspring of the old BLT with added power. Recent wars have an SLF going ashore when everybody is already there. So all the stuff you mentioned is already in place to provide CAS. A MEU in reality is a self contained landing force and it's CAS comes from what is aboard it's aircraft carrier.

Well, then, as I said above, in the near future that's going to be F-35B's, AH-1Z Vipers, maybe UH-1Y Venoms with guns and rockets, and F-18s if the Marines embarked from a slant-deck carrier. If they came from an amphibioius assault ship, then no Hornets would be with them.

The point is, though, those F-35s aren't going to have to get down and dirty most of the time. The latest trend in precision weapons is toward CAS. And those Marines on the beach are just as likely to be able to get that support from a B-52 they can't even see high overhead as they are from their preferred source, i.e. Marine air.

Close air support has evolved a LOT even in the past 5-10 years, which makes the F-35 a much more viable option now than it was at the beginning of the program when it was first put forth as a replacement for the Harrier. Is it ideal? No. But it's likely to be capable without having to put itself in easy reach of enemy defenses like MPADS and AA guns. And since CAS is hardly a stealthy mission, they won't be restricted to internally carried weapons. In addition to internally stowed ordnance (up to 5,700 lbs), they can hang an additonal 16,000 lbs on the wings. That's about a 22,000 pound payload not including fuel. The Harrier's maximum payload including fuel is 9,000 lbs. It doesn't seem like the Marines are getting that bad a deal, frankly.

 

[Coop45]

Well, then, as I said above, in the near future that's going to be F-35B's, AH-1Z Vipers, maybe UH-1Y Venoms with guns and rockets, and F-18s if the Marines embarked from a slant-deck carrier. If they came from an amphibioius assault ship, then no Hornets would be with them.

The point is, though, those F-35s aren't going to have to get down and dirty most of the time. The latest trend in precision weapons is toward CAS. And those Marines on the beach are just as likely to be able to get that support from a B-52 they can't even see high overhead as they are from their preferred source, i.e. Marine air.

Close air support has evolved a LOT even in the past 5-10 years, which makes the F-35 a much more viable option now than it was at the beginning of the program when it was first put forth as a replacement for the Harrier. Is it ideal? No. But it's likely to be capable without having to put itself in easy reach of enemy defenses like MPADS and AA guns. And since CAS is hardly a stealthy mission, they won't be restricted to internally carried weapons. In addition to internally stowed ordnance (up to 5,700 lbs), they can hang an additonal 16,000 lbs on the wings. That's about a 22,000 pound payload not including fuel. The Harrier's maximum payload including fuel is 9,000 lbs. It doesn't seem like the Marines are getting that bad a deal, frankly.

I'll admit the F35B will be mucho better than the F4 was. I'm too old to have experienced a Harrier. Please tell me that comm has progressed too and the grunt on the ground can now talk to fixed wing.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I'll admit the F35B will be mucho better than the F4 was. I'm too old to have experienced a Harrier. Please tell me that comm has progressed too and the grunt on the ground can now talk to fixed wing.

Depends on what you mean by communicate. I spent a career in the Joint CAS game up until late 2016. Digitally-aided CAS is pretty widespread today, even with the crayon eaters. We’re using connect LRFs with tablets and radios to do the entire FAC to Fighter and 9-line with the push of a button in a dismounted fight. Closest friendly is populated by GPS-enabled radios on individual dudes on the ground automatically transmitting their location.

Just one example.

https://www.bdatech.com/fac-usfieldingauthorization/

Even the A-10C has a giant MFD that’ll slew a targeting pod to my desired target coords to verify what we’re going to hit, then push button to transmit coords to bomb.

I’ve done entire CAS engagements with multiple different airframes from different services and countries where the only words spoking by me to the fighters (were “Cleared Hot”.

 

[Coop45]

Depends on what you mean by communicate. I spent a career in the Joint CAS game up until late 2016. Digitally-aided CAS is pretty widespread today, even with the crayon eaters. We’re using connect LRFs with tablets and radios to do the entire FAC to Fighter and 9-line with the push of a button in a dismounted fight. Closest friendly is populated by GPS-enabled radios on individual dudes on the ground automatically transmitting their location.

Just one example.

https://www.bdatech.com/fac-usfieldingauthorization/

Even the A-10C has a giant MFD that’ll slew a targeting pod to my desired target coords to verify what we’re going to hit, then push button to transmit coords to bomb.

I’ve done entire CAS engagements with multiple different airframes from different services and countries where the only words spoking by me to the fighters (were “Cleared Hot”.

Wow! Nice. That is awesome. In the olden days with the PRC 25, we had to go though a FAC or the battalion air operator. We had Bird Dog facs, but looking at what an OV10 could carry, that would have been nice too. Didn't see one until late 68 at CamPen. What is in use for a FAC now?