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Terminal Wounding Ballistics 101 *NSFW*

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  • dee

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    I think you're right claymore504, I would not expect a .40 HP to preform properly after going threw a barrier of anything other than paper or light clothing. They were not designed to shoot threw barrier's, the .357 Sig's were.

    I read an article on why State troopers carry .357 sig. It stated that the .357 Sig would go through a vehicle body and still disable a suspect unlike the .45 & .40. I'll see if I can find the article.
    DK Firearms
     

    claymore504

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    the .223 was never designed or intended as a killing round, it was intended for wounding...

    straight through penetration... if one of the enemies got hit with a .223 1-2 medics would have to put down their weapons and tend to the injured person, you just took out 3 shooters with a couple of .223 rounds...in essence


    it was very effective in this perspective, now you get into the 7.62x39 and .308 rounds and those were intended as man stoppers. the 7.62x39 within a closer range than the .308
    and yes i realize that the 7.62 is not a U.S. round.

    so if the intention of the tap rounds was to expand and mushroom like a slower pistol round then it did fail...
    if it was used as intended to pass through and create a spout for 2 blood trails then it did it's job.

     

    M. Sage

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    The NATO spec ammo the military uses is often different from the commercial-spec ammo.

    7.52x51 has a higher pressure and longer neck tolerance than .308 IIRC.

    5.56x45 has a higher pressure and slightly different case dimensions than .223.
     

    claymore504

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    The round leaves the muzzle at about 1350 fps, and has a flat trajectory out to about 100yards. It will go even further than suprtrpr, and have regularly hit a steel silhouette from 150 yds with the Sig 229DAK 6-7 times out of 10. We use it because it goes through everything -- car doors, house doors, the dreaded windshield and still carries a wallop. However, it generally will NOT go through a human, likes to bounce around inside and tear stuff up. In the time that we have used this round, I believe that only 2 suspects that have been shot by us have survived. A lot were struck only once or twice.

    It is an excellent round for SHP, we generally dont have to worry about overpenetration, and the car will not protect the bad guy.
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    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" --Edmund Burke

    The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will.
     

    dee

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    Yea I've read that about the not going through a human kinda like .22rimfire. I asked our pd why they won't let them carry the .357 sig and they said if they miss there is to much liabillity of it goiing through a wall and hitting someone else. The ironic thing about that is they can carry .357 magnum and they all carry a .223 carbine which makes no sense to me.
     

    dee

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    There are plenty of cases of .22 rimfire loosing velocity on initial impact and in center mass would then bounce around inside the ribcage.
     

    dee

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    Had some pics of a couple of pigs that a .22 caused major damage in the ribcage by hitting several different vitals but I guess the wife deleted them. I'll have to ask her when she gets home.
     

    M. Sage

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    It'll tumble and might take a bit of a looping path. Often bullets can fragment and that might make it look like the classic "bounced around like a pinball" claim (I believe that's where this one started, to be honest). Bullets just can't change direction all that drastically.
     

    dee

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    It'll tumble and might take a bit of a looping path. Often bullets can fragment and that might make it look like the classic "bounced around like a pinball" claim (I believe that's where this one started, to be honest). Bullets just can't change direction all that drastically.

    Your right that should have been the term I should have used. Could not think of tumble at the time.
     

    M. Sage

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    For what it's worth...

    handgun_gel_comparison.jpg


    .357 doesn't look a lot different than the rest. No sign of tumbling, which in a handgun bullet isn't going to do much - they're about as long as they are wide.

    I bet that if we cut that image up, shuffled the calibers and took away the labels, everybody would have a very hard time telling which is which.

    And yes, there is some difference in the initial stretch cavities, but it's not all that much. And remember, if you're in a fight, much of that could very well be wasted on an attackers' forearms assuming that he's in a fighting position, too. Don't know what I mean? Unload a gun and point it at a mirror, then check out what you need to shoot through to hit center of mass.

    Did you ever see the movie "Wanted?"

    j/k.

    Nice!
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Also keep in mind, that chart is from the mid to late 80's, or maybe the very early 90's at the latest. There have been some significant improvements in bullet technology since then.
     

    M. Sage

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    .40 S&W came out in 1990, so it's at least that new. Yeah, bullet technology has moved forward, but it seems like most of the steps forward have had to do with designs that resist plugging with fabric and failing to expand, and designs less likely to fragment when shooting through things like windshields.

    The overall difference between the different calibers is still going to be about the same.
     
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