Texas Gun Laws

[Bithabus]

Hi All-
New to the forum and to the state of Texas.

Could someone please shed some light on transporting a pistol while on bicycle? From what I understand PC §46.02 has rules for motor vehicles and PC §46.15(b)2 has to do with non-applicability of 46.02. Maybe this is obvious, but reading laws gives me a big fat headache.

My question is (and I'm not yet a resident or a CHL holder) am I in accordance with the law by carrying a pistol (loaded or unloaded) in a backpack while riding a bicycle? Or would I need a CHL to do that? Does it make a difference if the pistol is in a bag attached to the bicycle, not me?

I guess I'm getting confused because the pistol must be concealed in a vehicle, but if I'm outside of a vehicle and i conceal it (assuming i'm not going to my property or sporting event) then I'm violating law.. right?

Does the non-applicability simply mean that there are no specific rules governing transport on a bicycle so long as I'm not doing something 1) I'd need a CHL for and 2) open carrying?

Help is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

You need a CHL to carry on a bicycle, unless you are on property you own or control or meet one or more of the 46.15 criteria.

 

[feeesh]

Thanks for the prompt clarification Bithabus.

 

[coboblack]

Questions:

1. Can you legally carry a concealed handgun in a friends car without a CHL? E.g. You are both going to the shooting range and traveling in the same car. Only one of you is in control of the car, but he would of obviously given you permission.

2. What about friends and relatives houses?

3. What about work if you boss allows you? And, does he have to OWN the premis, like a landlord....or just be the person who rents the building out?

 

[txinvestigator]

Questions:

1. Can you legally carry a concealed handgun in a friends car without a CHL? E.g. You are both going to the shooting range and traveling in the same car. Only one of you is in control of the car, but he would of obviously given you permission.

2. What about friends and relatives houses?

3. What about work if you boss allows you? And, does he have to OWN the premis, like a landlord....or just be the person who rents the building out?

There are no provisions in the law restricting the carry of handguns for someone giving you permission. You must meetbthe requirments in penal code 46.02 or 46.15.

1. Going to the range is an exception. Friend's permission is not.

2. Not unless you have control of the premises.

3. See #2.

 

[coboblack]

There are no provisions in the law restricting the carry of handguns for someone giving you permission. You must meetbthe requirments in penal code 46.02 or 46.15.

1. Going to the range is an exception. Friend's permission is not.

It seems nonsensical to have a law, that is so open ended its near impossible to prosecute. You might as well not have it. For example, a person can always just say "we are on the way to range, or on the way back"...a cop can still potential arrest you, but is going to be hard pressed getting a prosecutor to take the case, because it will be near impossible to prove you weren't. Now I don't believe you should lie, a lot of my friends are officers and even some family members.

Thats not the reason I bring the point up, the point is...if your going to write a law that is that hard to enforce. Just don't write it. Just say, "You can carry in a friends car, as long as he is in control of it and gives you permission". Or say "you cannot carry a gun in another persons car for any reason, at all". I obviously don't want that, but they shouldn't try to be so restrictive if it doesn't help.


2. Not unless you have control of the premises.

3. See #2.
Can you help me define control? Is control something that can be shared? Like, if I go to my fathers house, its his house....but it would seem like that would be a place you could have and even use your own gun to defend. I can't imagine not being able to defend your fathers house, even if he was still the one in control of it?

 

[Bithabus]

It seems nonsensical to have a law, that is so open ended its near impossible to prosecute. You might as well not have it. For example, a person can always just say "we are on the way to range, or on the way back"...a cop can still potential arrest you, but is going to be hard pressed getting a prosecutor to take the case, because it will be near impossible to prove you weren't. Now I don't believe you should lie, a lot of my friends are officers and even some family members.

Thats not the reason I bring the point up, the point is...if your going to write a law that is that hard to enforce. Just don't write it. Just say, "You can carry in a friends car, as long as he is in control of it and gives you permission". Or say "you cannot carry a gun in another persons car for any reason, at all". I obviously don't want that, but they shouldn't try to be so restrictive if it doesn't help.


2. Not unless you have control of the premises.

3. See #2.
Can you help me define control? Is control something that can be shared? Like, if I go to my fathers house, its his house....but it would seem like that would be a place you could have and even use your own gun to defend. I can't imagine not being able to defend your fathers house, even if he was still the one in control of it?

Control means you are responsible for the property, like the manager of a business, or a lease holder. Do you have authority to make decisions concerning the property? Do you have your own set of keys?

You can also carry at someone else's place if you are spending the night since their property then becomes your premises.

 

[txinvestigator]

You can also carry at someone else's place if you are spending the night since their property then becomes your premises.

That is an interesting argument. One I had not considered, Do you have case law or some precedent you are basing that one or just a logical progession of following the text of the law?

 

[Bithabus]

That is an interesting argument. One I had not considered, Do you have case law or some precedent you are basing that one or just a logical progession of following the text of the law?

The definition of "premises" in 46.02. Hotel rooms count as premises, etc.

 

[txinvestigator]

The definition of "premises" in 46.02. Hotel rooms count as premises, etc.

So your premise is that another's home is no different than a hotel room, for purposes of this law, when you stay over night. Humm

I need to see what could be argued against that.

 

[Bithabus]

So your premise is that another's home is no different than a hotel room, for purposes of this law, when you stay over night. Humm

I need to see what could be argued against that.

"Real property that is being used as living quarters, whether temporary or permanent". That would include another person's home if someone is staying as a guest. The definition does not require that the person own or control the real property.

I looked for case law and unfortunately could not find any.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

...I looked for case law and unfortunately could not find any.

Outstanding!

...I need to see what could be argued against that.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[Bithabus]

Outstanding!

Well at least I tried

 

[txinvestigator]

"Real property that is being used as living quarters, whether temporary or permanent". That would include another person's home if someone is staying as a guest. The definition does not require that the person own or control the real property.

I looked for case law and unfortunately could not find any.

Yeah, I know the definitions.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

Well at least I tried

I wasn't dissing you. I sincerely appreciate your efforts!

Me personally, I wouldn't know where to begin searching for something like case law.

 

[Bithabus]

Yeah, I know the definitions.

I was anticipating a possible objection, that a friend's property is not your real property. But of course the definition does not require ownership or control, only that the property is being used as a living quarters, and the use can be temporary.

I wasn't dissing you. I sincerely appreciate your efforts!

Me personally, I wouldn't know where to begin searching for something like case law.

Thanks

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Sorry in advance, as it was not made clear and this thread was never locked. Stickies are supposed to be locked to provide a good static resource for content, not a dynamic place to discuss it. Please search the forum as most of these questions have already been answered before.