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  • TX OMFS

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    I haven't paid much attention to CC. I hounded my legislatures to get on board but haven't read it all.

    Will 30.05 signage also apply to LTC holders or do establishments still have to use 30.06 and 30.07 for LTC holders?
    Texas SOT
     

    rotor

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    The L
    Here’s the language:

    SECTION 17. Section 30.05, Penal Code, is amended by adding
    Subsections (c) and (d-3) and amending Subsections (d) and (f) to read as follows:
    (c) A person may provide notice that firearms are prohibited on the property by posting a sign at each entrance to the property that:
    (1) includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";
    (2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1)in both English and Spanish;
    (3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
    (4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

    That, to me, does not include any old gun buster sign, which while may provide notice, doesn’t seem to me to provide effective notice per the law.
    I spoke to Texas Law Shield attorney today and here is the kicker. See where it says "may provide", that means they can do just a gun buster. It should say "shall provide" but it doesn't. Therefore, according to Texas Law Shield attorney a gunbuster sign will keep a permitless (but not a LTC) carrier out. Sucks.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I spoke to Texas Law Shield attorney today and here is the kicker. See where it says "may provide", that means they can do just a gun buster. It should say "shall provide" but it doesn't. Therefore, according to Texas Law Shield attorney a gunbuster sign will keep a permitless (but not a LTC) carrier out. Sucks.

    I figured that was their take on it. Subsequently in the amended subsection (d-3) which outlines punishments, states notice includes oral or written communication.

    Notice is also defined in 30.05 as oral or written communication. Legally, that means spoken or written word, which is why I disagree with their assessment that this

    b31b84b1eb9ece43c201997158bb5537.jpg


    Meets the standard of the law.

    Now, include any words that reasonably convey entry with a handgun or firearm is not allowed, then I would agree due to the cavern of gray area written into the revised 30.05.

    I would also argue that the sign above, with No Handguns, does not convey the same thing as No Firearms.

    The 30.05 changes are a mess, to be sure.
     

    robertc1024

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    Thanks also from me for posting that. I suppose I haven't really paid much attention to the 30.05 stuff since I've got my LTC, but the info on 46.03 was very informative. I was also surprised to see the airport "oopsie" forgiveness on page 21. Good info!
     

    Renegade

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    I spoke to Texas Law Shield attorney today and here is the kicker. See where it says "may provide", that means they can do just a gun buster. It should say "shall provide" but it doesn't. Therefore, according to Texas Law Shield attorney a gunbuster sign will keep a permitless (but not a LTC) carrier out. Sucks.

    Well there is an attorney you probably do not want defending you.

    "A person may provide notice that firearms are prohibited on the property by posting a sign at each entrance to the property that:"

    It means exactly what he says. He may provide notice, or he may not. Basically it is a permission slip to ban guns, but to be effective it has to meet the verbage requirement.


    may
    [mā]

    VERB

    1. expressing possibility.
      "that may be true" ·
      [more]
    2. expressing permission.
      "may I ask a few questions?" ·
      [more]
    3. expressing a wish or hope.
      "may she rest in peace"
     

    toddnjoyce

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    Thanks also from me for posting that. I suppose I haven't really paid much attention to the 30.05 stuff since I've got my LTC, but the info on 46.03 was very informative. I was also surprised to see the airport "oopsie" forgiveness on page 21. Good info!

    If you care, there’s an LTC specific thread on the same guide here:

    Texas Law Shield on HB1927 for LTC
     

    easy rider

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    I still don't understand all the hubbub about a business that doesn't want your business. Under 30.05, if you are told to leave by an authorized person and you don't comply, you can be fined for criminal trespass. Now it may change the severity of the crime if a gun is involved, but it doesn't change the intent of the business. I doubt there will be many businesses that allow licensed carriers, but don't allow constitutional carriers, since they would possibly need the authorities involved to order proof.

    In all, I find it interesting and will look for further signage, but to me, I just don't do business knowing their intent, unless I have to. Then I will bite the bullet and go in unarmed, but then it will mean it's absolutely necessary.
     

    no2gates

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    I figured that was their take on it. Subsequently in the amended subsection (d-3) which outlines punishments, states notice includes oral or written communication.

    Notice is also defined in 30.05 as oral or written communication. Legally, that means spoken or written word, which is why I disagree with their assessment that this

    b31b84b1eb9ece43c201997158bb5537.jpg


    Meets the standard of the law.

    Now, include any words that reasonably convey entry with a handgun or firearm is not allowed, then I would agree due to the cavern of gray area written into the revised 30.05.

    I would also argue that the sign above, with No Handguns, does not convey the same thing as No Firearms.

    The 30.05 changes are a mess, to be sure.

    So, no pistols, but revolvers are ok :loaded:
     

    leVieux

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    The "common sense" doesn't bother me as much as many consider "gun control", or "assault weapon" for that matter.

    Agreed, i always tell folks to NEVER let the enemies of our Freedom dictate the terms (words) we use. Ergo, "common sense gun laws" are surely not "common sense" to me !

    leVieux
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    Jcsprankle

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    I have read chunks of the bill itself and the entire document produced by TX Law Shield and here's my interpretation of the signage (both old and new):
    • 30.06 - Bans LTC holders from carrying concealed while on the premises. Does NOT apply to Constitutional Carriers (CC).
    • 30.07 - Bans LTC holders from carrying openly while on the premises. Does NOT apply to Constitutional Carriers (CC).
    • 51% - Bans everyone from carrying a firearm, openly or concealed, in an establishment where more than half of their revenue is earned from alcohol sales. If this sign is missing, LTC holders may carry on the premises but CC may not.
    • 30.05 - Bans CC from carrying openly or concealed while on the premises. Does NOT apply to LTC holders.
    • 46.03 - Bans CC and LTC holders from carrying openly or concealed on the premises. I think this mostly applies to prohibited locations, like schools, nursing homes or post offices.
    • Gunbuster and other random "no guns" signs - Bans CC from carrying openly or concealed while on the premises. Does NOT apply to LTC holders.
    There ya go...clear as mud.
     

    Renegade

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    • 51% - Bans everyone from carrying a firearm, openly or concealed, in an establishment where more than half of their revenue is earned from alcohol sales. If this sign is missing, LTC holders may carry on the premises but CC may not.

    I do not think so unless something has changed and I missed it -

    (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
     
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