The town of Waller had....

[Pappy]

Keep it concealed and nobody but you will know

Of course, but that was not my thread starter question...

 

[txinvestigator]

The only place and time a city or county are allowed to post 30.06 is during a city or county meeting.

Not exactly. There is nothing that would prohibit a city or county from posting a 30.06 sign. The law does not "allow" them to post during government meetings. The 30.06 law is for CHL holders and indicates when it applies. Cities and counties can post all they want. The issue is whether or not that posting applies to a CHL holder.

An example of this thought, I went round and round with 3 different LEO friends on the "physical premises" of a school.

They finally agreed that the parking lot was legal. They where all in agreement that they would arrest and get the gun away from the school and apologize later.

Any LEO who makes an arrest when they know an offense has not occurred commits a crime. In fact, they violate federal and state law. I imagine they were just talking smack, and would not risk their freedom and careers over such a matter.

 

[Pappy]

Thanks for chiming in TXI...

My issue/interest is that the local PD posted non 30.06 signs stating no alcohol or firearms allowed. These were on school parking grounds for a 4th festival.

 

[JKTex]

Thanks for chiming in TXI...

My issue/interest is that the local PD posted non 30.06 signs stating no alcohol or firearms allowed. These were on school parking grounds for a 4th festival.

I think you answered your own question but some/all of us made it a little more than it is. Regardless of who posts, in that case a CHL holder is not restricted from carrying.

Sometimes we make the obvious hard to find with our own rhetoric.

 

[txinvestigator]

The town of Waller had a 4th of July festival on school stadium grounds.

The Waller police dept. had several non 30.06 signs displayed that stated no alcohol or firearms allowed.

Question; Do local police signs have the same legality as the state 30.06 for a CHL holder?

I personally think that school grounds are off-limits and with local LE backing, this is a no-no for a CHL.

What do y'all think????

1. Can police post an enforceable non 30.06 sign?

No. Section 30.06 is very specific about what constitutes notice.

I assume that Waller held the 4th display on public school property, which IS a government entity. To that, 30.06 signs are not enforceable.

2. You also wrote they held the display on "school stadium grounds". What does that mean, exactly? Is it one of those typical small town High School stadiums with bleachers, but no buildings you enter? In that case, is the stadium the premises?

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

the display was not being conducted by the school, so the section about "grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted" would not apply.

The question is whether or not the display was on the physical premises of the school.

3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

The first sentence is specific, and tells us that a building or portion of a building is a premises. The second sentence is not inclusive. Those are not the only areas that are not the premises.

It is MY opinion, that whether or not you would be excluded from carry at the fireworks display is entirely dependant on what type of stadium it was.

 

[Pappy]

Thank you Sir...

Altho I did not attend the activities, the signs bothered me. My friend who was driving us by there asked what my thoughts were...
I answered that I probably could carry there, but would not.

The signs were around the perimeter of the stadium parking area which also prohibited street parking. No buildings to be entered.

As I mentioned earlier, I may be right, but I don't want to test the local PD.

 

[txinvestigator]

Thank you Sir...

Altho I did not attend the activities, the signs bothered me. My friend who was driving us by there asked what my thoughts were...
I answered that I probably could carry there, but would not.

The signs were around the perimeter of the stadium parking area which also prohibited street parking. No buildings to be entered.

As I mentioned earlier, I may be right, but I don't want to test the local PD.

I don't do illegal things either. That said, if you are not breaking the law you are not breaking the law. If there were no metal detectors or searching people no one would know. If they were using detectors or searching, you would get verbal notice and refused entry.

 

[thorkyl]

County Level
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx....LG.235@SOTW&QueryText=firearm&HighlightType=1

Sec. 235.023. PROHIBITED REGULATIONS. This subchapter does not authorize the commissioners court to regulate the transfer, ownership, possession, or transportation of firearms and does not authorize the court to require the registration of firearms .

The county can not regulate possession - they can not stop you from possessing at the park


Here is the city level
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx....ext=transportation<OR>firearm&HighlightType=1

Sec. 229.001. FIREARMS ; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership, keeping, transportation , licensing, or registration of firearms , ammunition, or firearm supplies.


Now Chapter 411 states where you can not take a CW

However B6 does say that a city may regulate the following for non-CHL
(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

Now, a school stadium is part of the premises as it is not in the list of what is not part of the premises.

 

[JKTex]

But the subject is school grounds, not a City Park or City property. A school is not owned by a city or town.

And, while you are right, the examples of what is not the "premises" are listed, "premises" is also defined. But, it's not a school sponsored function and unless I missed it, and it's come up throughout the thread and hasn't been clarified, I don't believe they were entering the stadium. I believe the fireworks were being shot off from the stadium.

Our town did the same thing. One of the HS campuses parking lots were used for parking and observation only. The fireworks were shot from the stadium grounds.

If that's correct, that would nullify the majority of the arguments in this thread.

 

[txinvestigator]

Sec. 235.023. PROHIBITED REGULATIONS. This subchapter does not authorize the commissioners court to regulate the transfer, ownership, possession, or transportation of firearms and does not authorize the court to require the registration of firearms .

It is common to state from what code one pastes laws.....

Now Chapter 411 states where you can not take a CW
A city park is not on the list and they can not regulate it

Chapter 411 of what? The Government code? Chapter 411 of the government code does not state where you can take a CW, assuming by CW you mean concealed weapon.

However B6 does say that a city may regulate the following for non-CHL

B6 of WHAT?

(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or professional athletic event.

OK, this thread is not about any of those places, so I miss your point.

Now, a school stadium is part of the premises as it is not in the list of what is not part of the premises.

Negative. The definition of premises in Chapter 46.035 of the penal code is;


"Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area." The first sentence is inclusive. The second sentence is not inclusive.

"Front lawn" is not mentioned in the list of excluded places either, but the front lawn of a school is not a location you are prohibited from carrying.



A stadium is convered under Penal Code 46.03 (a) (1) "grounds or building on which a school sponsered even is being conducted".

 

[ROGER4314]

Hi Guys,

I am a real careful person with my carry responsibilities. For instance, when mailing letters, I dump the piece before going to the mail drop even though the time I'd be in there would be only seconds. I'm not going to commit a crime because I'm too lazy to park the piece. Seconds, minutes, hours or days, it's all the same. You're breaking the law by carrying in a Post Office.

Business owner preferences are the same way. I'm not going to argue the point right or wrong with the business owner. As a CHL holder, if he doesn't want my dollars, I simply take my money somewhere else. There are plenty of places that recognize that because I have a CHL I've been checked out thoroughly and I'm NOT one of the bad guys.

Regarding the stadium, there are tons of places to have a good time on the holiday. If those rascals didn't want "my kind" there....... it works for me!

Flash

 

[txinvestigator]

Hi Guys,

I am a real careful person with my carry responsibilities. For instance, when mailing letters, I dump the piece before going to the mail drop even though the time I'd be in there would be only seconds. I'm not going to commit a crime because I'm too lazy to park the piece. Seconds, minutes, hours or days, it's all the same. You're breaking the law by carrying in a Post Office.

What law is that?

Business owner preferences are the same way. I'm not going to argue the point right or wrong with the business owner. As a CHL holder, if he doesn't want my dollars, I simply take my money somewhere else.

A 30.06 sign does not mean he does not want you in the store or your business. He just prefers you don't carry there. If that makes you not want to do business with him, whatever, but the notion that the sign equates to not wanting CHLers business is not true.

Regarding the stadium, there are tons of places to have a good time on the holiday. If those rascals didn't want "my kind" there....... it works for me!

Flash

It has nothing to do with "your kind", it is your gun.

 

[ROGER4314]

I understand your point: the businesses don't object to me, only my gun.

My point is that the gun is part of me and is inseparable. I can change to suit the business owner but will not do that. He takes me the way I am or I'll simply go somewhere else. That's the way our system works. If you don't like the rules set up at a particular business, don't try to change them.........dust them off and go somewhere else.

Flash

 

[txinvestigator]

I understand your point: the businesses don't object to me, only my gun.

My point is that the gun is part of me and is inseparable.

Really? So what do you do when you need to go to a legislatively restricted location? Like a courthouse or inside a school?

How about if you want to go to Six Flags?

 

[ROGER4314]

I think we beat on this one sufficiently. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

Flash

 

[txinvestigator]

I think we beat on this one sufficiently. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

Flash

OK, but I am really curious.

 

[thorkyl]

It is common to state from what code one pastes laws.....
.

The links did not copy correctly, will get it corrected. That was a copy of a posting from another site.

The way I understand it, A stadium, just like the grass between the curb and the sidewalk is part of the premises as it is not on the list of items that are not part of the premise.

I take the attitude when it comes to schools, If I have to step off the sidewalk or the driveway I leave it in the car.

 

[txinvestigator]

The way I understand it, A stadium, just like the grass between the curb and the sidewalk is part of the premises as it is not on the list of items that are not part of the premise.

That is incorrect. Premises is A BUILDING OR A PORTION OF A BUILDING. It does not have to be on the list. Those stated items are not the only areas excluded from premises.

I take the attitude when it comes to schools, If I have to step off the sidewalk or the driveway I leave it in the car.

That is fine, but it is not what the law requires.