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Thinking about a rifle purchase

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  • Spcwolf

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    Apr 16, 2013
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    I didn’t read the whole thread, but my 2 cents.

    get a mosin nagant.
    ammo should be easier to find on the second hand market then most right now.
    They make shorter barrel variants such as the M44 that has a fixed bayonet. It would be a good rifle to just have, the caliber is a man killer world round, and it can be used for hunting as well.
    I would do this if you can’t find anything else.

    They are a lot of fun to shoot as well.
     

    Moonpie

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    Gunz are icky.
    You have seen it on here before. If not I’ll get pics.

    3FFF7FA4-1A90-4719-803D-51EB7B7CA72F.jpeg
     

    popper

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    but lack anything other than a blind hole that gasses flow into
    Basically a piston. Gas has to do work on something. Just no op rod is the real difference. Stoner just found a unique way of doing it.
     

    Dougw1515

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    I'm going to offer my input based on my personal observations and experience from my perspective.

    Lot of people want to build a higher end AR rifle from quality made parts. Not a bad idea by any means. But an assembly of higher end parts isn't necessarily going to guarantee a high end rifle once assembled. Think "FrankenAR"!

    First thing a person needs to define is what is going to be the primary intended usage of the rifle, and once that is defined, then a person can then start deciding which parts to buy that will help them achieve the desired end product once completed.

    A perfect analogy to this would be, building a small block Chevy engine for drag racing, would be much different than building one to go stock car racing.

    Another aspect of building a rifle is that sometimes it much cheaper to configure a rifle to your specific needs, than to modify or replace parts on an off the shelf factory built rifle to your individual needs or wants.

    And here's a huge question, and it can only be honestly answered by the person wanting to do such a build. Are going to actually use the higher end rifle to it's full advantage to realize the benefits of having built a better gun that it's really that much better than a factory built rifle?

    Reason I say that, is I have seen lots of people spend big dollars on high end builds, only to go and shoot them a few times in the back yard, when a much less expensive factory built rifle would have served as well for the same purpose, and for their wants or needs, didn't really perform any better, or they couldn't realize it's full potential.

    But only the person building, or wanting to build can answer that, and it's not my place to question what others spend their money on.

    I copied your post over to this one as well because I was guilty of thread theft on the other thread. It was getting hard for folks to carry on multiple conversations in a single thread so.... here we are.

    All the replies thus far have made a lot of sense. And I've done a lot of thinking about what's been posted. I've come to the understanding that I actually want 2 different AR's. I do want to build a high-end rifle simply because it'd be fun to do and a learning experience. And I will do that - one day. For now... low-mid range price factory AR will meet my immediate goals. 1.) Own an AR 2.)Own an AR because a huge round capacity exist. Don't wanna be chasing/changing magazines if I don't have to. 3.) Intended purpose of first AR will be close combat situations, getting experience with the platform, use as a tool to better define what I want in the next AR. Still haven't decided which one as I just reached this conclusion today.

    What I'm kinna fleshing out as I go a long.

    1.) Decent barrel that is good for medium-long duration firing(5.56x16")
    2.) Fold down Iron sights(at least for the rear)
    3.) Strap attach points
    4.) Red Dot optics(flip down if it makes sense)
    5.) Picatinny quad rail handguard
    6.)Vertical fore grip
    7.) Comes with free 10,000 rounds ammunition.
    8.) After installing the CGW ProTrigger kit in the CZ75 I'll most likely install a trigger upgrade almost immediately.
     

    Axxe55

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    Dec 15, 2019
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    I copied your post over to this one as well because I was guilty of thread theft on the other thread. It was getting hard for folks to carry on multiple conversations in a single thread so.... here we are.

    All the replies thus far have made a lot of sense. And I've done a lot of thinking about what's been posted. I've come to the understanding that I actually want 2 different AR's. I do want to build a high-end rifle simply because it'd be fun to do and a learning experience. And I will do that - one day. For now... low-mid range price factory AR will meet my immediate goals. 1.) Own an AR 2.)Own an AR because a huge round capacity exist. Don't wanna be chasing/changing magazines if I don't have to. 3.) Intended purpose of first AR will be close combat situations, getting experience with the platform, use as a tool to better define what I want in the next AR. Still haven't decided which one as I just reached this conclusion today.

    What I'm kinna fleshing out as I go a long.

    1.) Decent barrel that is good for medium-long duration firing(5.56x16")
    2.) Fold down Iron sights(at least for the rear)
    3.) Strap attach points
    4.) Red Dot optics(flip down if it makes sense)
    5.) Picatinny quad rail handguard
    6.)Vertical fore grip
    7.) Comes with free 10,000 rounds ammunition.
    8.) After installing the CGW ProTrigger kit in the CZ75 I'll most likely install a trigger upgrade almost immediately.

    Understand completely Doug! Seems like there almost two identical threads going at the same time about very similar subjects. It can get confusing for everyone I'm sure.

    MY input on a person wanting to buy their first AR platform rifle is fairly simple. I like to suggest they buy a pretty basic factory AR rifle. Not a lot of bells and whistles, just the basic AR. I suggest they learn the platform. Learn how it operates, how to field strip it, clean it and maintain it. Learn how to shoot it as well. Learn what changes or modifications are really needed to make it a better rifle for them. Sometimes, if they are only minor changes, it may be lesser expensive to make those changes to a factory built AR, than to build one from various parts. And by no means would I discourage anyone from building their own rifle if that is what they want to do. At some point, a person wants bigger or better changes that doing so with a factory rifle seems almost wasteful, and starting with a bare upper and lower, and buying better made parts just comes out cheaper in the long run when the project is completed.

    IMO, starting with a basic AR, and learning it, goes a long ways in understanding the platform, and knowing what will work best for your specific needs. And that is entirely the beauty of the platform. It's versatility to be adaptable to many different uses for a vast group of shooters.
     

    Axxe55

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    Dec 15, 2019
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    I copied your post over to this one as well because I was guilty of thread theft on the other thread.
    What I'm kinna fleshing out as I go a long.

    1.) Decent barrel that is good for medium-long duration firing(5.56x16")
    2.) Fold down Iron sights(at least for the rear)
    3.) Strap attach points
    4.) Red Dot optics(flip down if it makes sense)
    5.) Picatinny quad rail handguard
    6.)Vertical fore grip
    7.) Comes with free 10,000 rounds ammunition.
    8.) After installing the CGW ProTrigger kit in the CZ75 I'll most likely install a trigger upgrade almost immediately.

    1. Most barrels for AR's are 1/7, 1/8, or 1/9 twist ratios. This is decided mainly what weight of ammo you intend to primarily shoot in your AR. Going with a factory built AR, you are pretty much relegated to what the factory barrel is, unless you replace the barrel. For most practical purposes a chrome-lined barrel is the best for most purposes and uses and are pretty durable as well for longevity.

    2. I'd suggest getting an A3 or A4 upper that is flat-top with rail already built onto it. If a person is wanting to go optics, or a red dot type optic, with back-up open type sights, this seems IMO the best route to go. With some red-dot type optics you can also co-witness them with one another, which can be useful in some situations.

    3. Lots of options here, even from factory built AR's, and no shortage of aftermarket support for slings and sling attachments and for the most part, not a really expensive change to make to a factory rifle either.

    4. Covered in #2 for the most part. Others can provide more input on red dot optics, and much better advice or suggestions here than myself. I have used them in the past on my AR's, but, I prefer either open sights, or a conventional scope on mine instead.

    5. They are great, if you plan on adding accessories that uses them. Light, or laser, or beer bottle opener! (yes, people have done that!) If you are planning on, or thinking in the future that you would want to mount a light or laser, I'd consider going this route as well. But even if you opt not to at this time, handguards can be replaced fairly easily. There is no shortage of options in handguards with rails to choose from either.

    6. Another purely personal preference, and one that necessitates having a handguard with a rail on the bottom. Personally, I have shot AR's with a vertical grip, and just didn't really care for them for my purposes or needs. Having a bottom rail, allows you the option though.

    7. Okay, wake up now! You're in dream state! Would be nice though.

    8. Not a bad modification to make, and not overly difficult for the most part. Budget does factor in here, and types as well. You can buy simple trigger parts kits to entire replacement drop-in trigger assemblies for an AR. From mild to wild in price range as well. All depends on what you want, or expect, or need from your trigger.
     

    Dougw1515

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    1. Most barrels for AR's are 1/7, 1/8, or 1/9 twist ratios. This is decided mainly what weight of ammo you intend to primarily shoot in your AR. Going with a factory built AR, you are pretty much relegated to what the factory barrel is, unless you replace the barrel. For most practical purposes a chrome-lined barrel is the best for most purposes and uses and are pretty durable as well for longevity.

    2. I'd suggest getting an A3 or A4 upper that is flat-top with rail already built onto it. If a person is wanting to go optics, or a red dot type optic, with back-up open type sights, this seems IMO the best route to go. With some red-dot type optics you can also co-witness them with one another, which can be useful in some situations.

    3. Lots of options here, even from factory built AR's, and no shortage of aftermarket support for slings and sling attachments and for the most part, not a really expensive change to make to a factory rifle either.

    4. Covered in #2 for the most part. Others can provide more input on red dot optics, and much better advice or suggestions here than myself. I have used them in the past on my AR's, but, I prefer either open sights, or a conventional scope on mine instead.

    5. They are great, if you plan on adding accessories that uses them. Light, or laser, or beer bottle opener! (yes, people have done that!) If you are planning on, or thinking in the future that you would want to mount a light or laser, I'd consider going this route as well. But even if you opt not to at this time, handguards can be replaced fairly easily. There is no shortage of options in handguards with rails to choose from either.

    6. Another purely personal preference, and one that necessitates having a handguard with a rail on the bottom. Personally, I have shot AR's with a vertical grip, and just didn't really care for them for my purposes or needs. Having a bottom rail, allows you the option though.

    7. Okay, wake up now! You're in dream state! Would be nice though.

    8. Not a bad modification to make, and not overly difficult for the most part. Budget does factor in here, and types as well. You can buy simple trigger parts kits to entire replacement drop-in trigger assemblies for an AR. From mild to wild in price range as well. All depends on what you want, or expect, or need from your trigger.
    Due to an auto accident in '69 I am unable to rotate my left arm into palm up position. I have fire 22LR rifles w/o a vertical grip but if the rifle requires a firm fore grip the vertical grip is pretty much mandatory.
     

    Axxe55

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    Due to an auto accident in '69 I am unable to rotate my left arm into palm up position. I have fire 22LR rifles w/o a vertical grip but if the rifle requires a firm fore grip the vertical grip is pretty much mandatory.

    Completely understand and makes good sense. This is why and for good reason, an AR is very adaptable and would be easily configured for your specific needs.
     

    Dougw1515

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    About that barrel twist... I'm looking at an M&P15 Sport II optics ready. Among other things it has a 1-in-9 barrel twist. In my reading I understand that twist is good for heavier bullets 80gr and up. My question is does this make say a 55gr projectile more accurate out of that same barrel on does it have no appreciable impact. The answer will not be a deal breaker in any case just curious.
     

    Sam7sf

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    About that barrel twist... I'm looking at an M&P15 Sport II optics ready. Among other things it has a 1-in-9 barrel twist. In my reading I understand that twist is good for heavier bullets 80gr and up. My question is does this make say a 55gr projectile more accurate out of that same barrel on does it have no appreciable impact. The answer will not be a deal breaker in any case just curious.
    The answer is gonna be case by case. Each gun seeing what load it likes for better grouping. 1:9 shoots a lot well. My ruger American ranch shoots 3/8 and under group with 75 grain and up. Still shoots 55 grain ball acceptably. My ruger mpr with a 1:8 barrel shoots 55 grain ball the best. My sig mcx with a 1:7 barrel likes 62 grainers. As with my mini14 that also has a 1:7. As you can see with my guns, it varies.
     

    Sam7sf

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    How important is a free floating hand guard relative to accuracy?
    It will make a difference but again you can have that feature but have shotty qa and a crap barrel. If you’re really wanting sub moa then spend the money on brand. Typically I tell people expensive brands don’t give you anything more than mid tier brands in terms of functionality but with barrels I have seen that yes you tend to want to spend some coin on brands that have a reputation for that.
     
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