Thoughts on an Auto knife as an EDC

[Bithabus]

I was told by a guy selling them a a gun show Case Law allows for C&R style auto knives. I have no desire to own one, so I never checked any further to see if this was true or not.

If it is a curio or antique you can have it in your collection. If it is merely "C&R style" it is still illegal.

 

[kurt]

Interesting. I bought an automatic Benchmade at the last gun show I attended this year. I assumed owning one was not illegal, only carrying it. I'm exempt, but they didn't ask any questions or verify eligibility.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

If it is a curio or antique you can have it in your collection. If it is merely "C&R style" it is still illegal.

My understanding is that the knife being a Curio or Relic poses a defense to prosecution for possessing it (whether sitting in a display case or in your pocket).

Operative language being "...actor's conduct..." and "...dealing with..."; seems to provide quite a bit of room.

 

[Bithabus]

Interesting. I bought an automatic Benchmade at the last gun show I attended this year. I assumed owning one was not illegal, only carrying it. I'm exempt, but they didn't ask any questions or verify eligibility.

Nobody is exempt. Some people may possess an auto when it is incidental to official duties.

My understanding is that the knife being a Curio or Relic poses a defense to prosecution for possessing it (whether sitting in a display case or in your pocket).

You get an affirmative defense only when dealing with the knife solely as an antique or curio. If you are carrying it around as a general duty pocket knife you are not dealing with it solely as an antique or curio, in my opinion as a knife collector.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

You get an affirmative defense only when dealing with the knife solely as an antique or curio. If you are carrying it around as a general duty pocket knife you are not dealing with it solely as an antique or curio, in my opinion as a knife collector.

Your opinion is logically founded, but the statute doesn't make that distinction. It only stipulates that you have to be dealing with it solely as a curio.

That being said, I have decent-sized edged weapon collection, many of which are automatic (in fact, many were gifts from working overseas); and I DO NOT carry one as a duty knife - largely because I would not want to wear/damage one. BUT, if I were transporting one to/from a service provider or repair facility, I would expect the same defense to prosecution afforded to me if it wear on display at home. It boils down to either convincing a LEO of the situation, or subsequently convincing a magistrate.

 

[Bithabus]

Your opinion is logically founded, but the statute doesn't make that distinction. It only stipulates that you have to be dealing with it solely as a curio.

That being said, I have decent-sized edged weapon collection, many of which are automatic (in fact, many were gifts from working overseas); and I DO NOT carry one as a duty knife - largely because I would not want to wear/damage one. BUT, if I were transporting one to/from a service provider or repair facility, I would expect the same defense to prosecution afforded to me if it wear on display at home. It boils down to either convincing a LEO of the situation, or subsequently convincing a magistrate.

I didn't say you could never transport the knife. But, the transport would have to be solely related to the curio or antique status of the knife.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

I didn't say you could never transport the knife. But, the transport would have to be solely related to the curio or antique status of the knife.

The burden of proof would be on the accusing party/prosecutor to establish that it wasn't.

 

[Bithabus]

The burden of proof would be on the accusing party/prosecutor to establish that it wasn't.

No, that's not how a defense works, and especially not an affirmative defense.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

To be honest, I always found it amazing that I could be stopped by a peace officer, be in possession of 6 or 7 (concealed) handguns and a Benchmade Infidel, be OK on the firearms but get roped for the knife.

Understand that I am opining about the fact that a CHL doesn't also provide lateral coverage for otherwise prohibited knives, not questioning whether or not it does.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

Explain how the burden of proof becomes the defense's.

As I understand it, the 'Affirmative Defense' conditions (if effectively established by the defense/defendant) potentially defeat any of the allegations that are proven by the prosecutor. The use of an Affirmative Defense, by the defense, doesn't remove the prosecutions obligatory burden of proof.

 

[Bithabus]

Understand that I am opining about the fact that a CHL doesn't also provide lateral coverage for otherwise prohibited knives, not questioning whether or not it does.

According to the statute a CHL allows you to carry illegal knives but not prohibited weapons. Auto knives are prohibited weapons.

 

[Bithabus]

Explain how the burden of proof becomes the defense's.

Not sure what you mean. The burden to demonstrate a defense falls on the defendant.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

Explain how the burden of proof becomes the defense's.

As I understand it, the 'Affirmative Defense' conditions (if effectively established by the defense/defendant) potentially defeat any of the allegations that are proven by the prosecutor. The use of an Affirmative Defense, by the defense, doesn't remove the prosecutions obligatory burden of proof.

§ 2.04. AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. (a) An affirmative defense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is an affirmative defense to prosecution . . . ." (b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of an affirmative defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense. (c) The issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense. (d) If the issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that the defendant must prove the affirmative defense by a preponderance of evidence.


It appears that the defense DOES have to prove "...with a preponderance of evidence..." that the conditions of the Affirmative Defense exist.

Good to know; thank you for the redirection.

 

[thirdcoastangler]

Not sure what you mean. The burden to demonstrate a defense falls on the defendant.

I was referring to this:


§ 2.01. PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. All persons are presumed to be innocent and no person may be convicted of an offense unless each element of the offense is proved beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact that he has been arrested, confined, or indicted for, or otherwise charged with, the offense gives rise to no inference of guilt at his trial.

But have since reviewed further.

 

[gentlemantex]

Do not use any knife that blade and handle combined exceeds the Blade legal length for protection in Harris County Texas. I can tell you from personal experience that the to use a knife or any other weapon in Texas outside your home for self defense is an arrestable offense and you will have to prove you were defending yourself in court. I can also assure you that Harris County will include handle length as the length of the knife. I know this is not how the law is intended, but facts are facts as I was attacked while sitting in my truck and stabbed my assailant after being hit with a baseball bat through my window after he was crawling into my truck through the window(you should also know that I do not and never have done drugs and do not even drink alcohol). I went to jail while my assailant was not charged with anything. When I was charged they included the handle length in the length of the knife and not just the length of the blade. This charge is "assault with a deadly weapon/namely a knife"(a second degree felony that carries a 2 to 20 years sentence in prison if convicted)and if you can not make bail in Harris County you can figure spending along time in jail trying to get a trial. Harris County does not believe in our constitutional rights to a speedy trial or any other constitutional rights for that matter! As for me I will never set foot in Harris County ever again. It is very sad when a crack head attempting to rob you goes free while in attempt to protect yourself you are arrested. I spent 10.5 months in jail and when I was scheduled to select a jury they did not even have any Jury members called in to select from and was reset for 6 more months in jail. I took probation to get out of that hell hole as I knew there was little chance of trial on my next court date. Though if I had not had the knife I believe I would be have been killed that night.
I know the old saying better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6, but good luck in being judged by 12 in Harris County! In fact according to my lawyer and my probation officer I would have gotten a PR bond in any other county as I was 47 years old at the time and I did not even have a traffic violation on my record, but since I was not a resident of Harris County they doubled my bond using the excuse I was flight risk even though I was a resident of Texas.
You should also know that it is much easier to get a job after being released from prison than being on probation.

 

[matefrio]

gentlemanex, that sucks. Sounds like your lawyer had his head up his ass. How much was bail set at in your case?

 

[txinvestigator]

Do not use any knife that blade and handle combined exceeds the Blade legal length for protection in Harris County Texas. I can tell you from personal experience that the to use a knife or any other weapon in Texas outside your home for self defense is an arrestable offense and you will have to prove you were defending yourself in court. I can also assure you that Harris County will include handle length as the length of the knife. I know this is not how the law is intended, but facts are facts as I was attacked while sitting in my truck and stabbed my assailant after being hit with a baseball bat through my window after he was crawling into my truck through the window(you should also know that I do not and never have done drugs and do not even drink alcohol). I went to jail while my assailant was not charged with anything. When I was charged they included the handle length in the length of the knife and not just the length of the blade. This charge is "assault with a deadly weapon/namely a knife"(a second degree felony that carries a 2 to 20 years sentence in prison if convicted)and if you can not make bail in Harris County you can figure spending along time in jail trying to get a trial. Harris County does not believe in our constitutional rights to a speedy trial or any other constitutional rights for that matter! As for me I will never set foot in Harris County ever again. It is very sad when a crack head attempting to rob you goes free while in attempt to protect yourself you are arrested. I spent 10.5 months in jail and when I was scheduled to select a jury they did not even have any Jury members called in to select from and was reset for 6 more months in jail. I took probation to get out of that hell hole as I knew there was little chance of trial on my next court date. Though if I had not had the knife I believe I would be have been killed that night.
I know the old saying better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6, but good luck in being judged by 12 in Harris County! In fact according to my lawyer and my probation officer I would have gotten a PR bond in any other county as I was 47 years old at the time and I did not even have a traffic violation on my record, but since I was not a resident of Harris County they doubled my bond using the excuse I was flight risk even though I was a resident of Texas.
You should also know that it is much easier to get a job after being released from prison than being on probation.

If you stabbed someone, even in self defense, it is an offense and the burden is on you to show that you met the justifications in penal code chapter 9 (use of force laws) .

Do you have any offense reports or a criminal complaint we could read? It would give us a much better understanding of what happened to you.