Thoughts on Perimeter Defense Rifle

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  • ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    I surely understand .
    I'm just the opposite though.
    I can see fine past my reach. I need glasses to read my phone though.
    Ha!
    I've worn glasses/contacts since I was a kid, can't see distance without em.
    Ever since I hit ~50, I've needed cheaters when I'm wearing my contacts in order to see up close.
    Without glasses or contacts I can see close just fine, ain't it a trip.
    Venture Surplus ad
     

    Vaquero

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    If a man is going to depend on a scope, he needs to practice with a scope.
    I still spend hours per week chasing buzzards and hawks with unloaded and cleared rifles or binoculars.
    It just becomes second nature.

    Still, if you can see it moving at 300 yds with a naked eye, you can hit it with a red dot.
     

    ZX9RCAM

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    I've had an Aimpoint with 3x flip magnifier on an AR for 10 years or more.
    Haven't put more than 25 rounds through it, in just the one outing to sight it in, lol.
     

    FireInTheWire

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    And the thing about an ACOG-type optic is that you don't close one eye. You keep both eyes open, which eliminates some of the target acquisition difficulty that Vaquero mentioned and is concerned with. Using an ACOG is nothing like using a regular rifle scope.

    I shoot EVERYTHING with both eyes open. It's the only way to fly. If possible...
     

    toddnjoyce

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    ... I figure it is time to acquire a rifle that can provide some good perimeter defense fire power out to about 300 yds

    Given that I intend to buy a quality AR in 5.56...

    I feel perfectly safe where I am now

    ... Part of me says having a rifle at the ready with several hundred rounds loaded is foolishness,

    The Boy Scouts have it right with the motto “Be Prepared”.

    Ok. So you buy all this stuff. That’s step 39 of the plan.

    Threat assessment. Has one been conducted by someone who actually knows what their doing? If so, what does it say?

    What measures have been taken to defeat, delay, or deter the threat prior to requiring you to engage?

    Do you intend to train in scenarios specific to your situation?

    Have you considered a post engagement plan?

    How will you handle yourself with respect to law enforcement personnel post engagement?

    Have you put in place a legal defense plan?

    What’s your plan for when you can’t do what it currently takes to implement your plan?
     

    pronstar

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    I can shoot rifles just fine, my eyes need magnification now is all.
    I understand what you're getting at, but past 100 yards, I'd want some magnification.

    I’m with you.
    Perimeter in my view, is at a distance.

    A great 1-4 like a Steiner P4xi, or a good 1-6 would be my choice.

    Once the perimeter has been breached, I’d consider a red dot.

    But that’s the great thing about a LPVO scope, a flick of the ring and you’ve got an unmagnified red dot.


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    ROGER4314

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    I competed for nearly 8 years with rifles including the AR-15's at 200 and 600 yards. If I see something hostile at 600 yards, it's toast! I did that with iron sights but at 71, had to transition to optical sights.

    Why do you discount the AR for your needs? The AR can perform well at your specified distances, they are priced attractively and the ammo is cheap!

    Flash
     

    Dawico

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    Do I want to put a well placed round right between the eyes? Then yea, a scope, and the .308, maybe even .338L, might even consider the NV stuff at that point.
    A 5.56/ 223 rifle is more than enough to drop a 2 legged predator at 300 yards especially with a head shot.

    A 308 is better but pushing overkill for what the OP is asking. A 338 Lapua at 300 yards? That just tells me you watch too many movies.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    An AR 15 would be perfectly fine for 300 yards or more. If you want something with a bit more range and power in an AR 15 platform, something like the .224 Valkyrie might be worth looking at. The rifle and ammo will be quite a bit more expensive and harder to find though. Same for the 6.5/6mm Creedmoor
     

    tact

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    A quality AR with a LPV optic and a light should fill your intended need. There are plenty of quality ARs decently priced. I wouldn’t necessarily drink the SOLGW kool aid though.
     

    Ole Cowboy

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    Pushing 70 years old and now living in the country on acreage with a house set back from the road, I figure it is time to acquire a rifle that can provide some good perimeter defense fire power out to about 300 yds in the event of a SHTF situation where pretty much anyone that plows through my gate is up to no good and would need to be quickly convinced to move on and find easier pickings. I am no longer the kind of rifle shot that I used to be so at this late stage I am looking for the right combination of accuracy, capacity and penetration power. Not a big fan of the 5.56 but I realize its advantages of light weight and accuracy over the 7.62 rifles I have used all my life. I have never owned an AR although I am familiar with them and have shot enough of my friends' to be comfortable with their capabilities for perimeter defense. My two main rifles in the past have been a Remington 742 in 30-06 and a Winchester 100 in .308. Both excellent and accurate rifles for me and the main reasons I never bought an AR. Neither, however, has the capacity or reliability I would want in something that my life or family depended upon to hold off a half dozen or perps intent on bodily harm.

    Given that I intend to buy a quality AR in 5.56, I am a bit at a loss about the following:
    • 30 rd magazines seem to be the right compromise between capacity and weight. Are there better options if defending a well entrenched position?
    • What kind of optics? I am used to using quality 3 X 9 variable scopes but it seems I might be better with a more rugged "point and shoot" optic that provides better sight picture instead of magnification.
    • Night vision is fine for hog hunting but is there any rationale to have it on a defense rifle?
    • Is a suppressor worth the paperwork and cost for this kind of rifle? Will it provide recoil advantages in a combat situation?
    I hope these questions don't sound stupid, but I have spent my life relying on handguns for home defense. Of course, living in the cities and suburbs is a different animal and I now realize the I am a bit out of my element in the country and want to have a plan to defend my property if need be. I feel perfectly safe where I am now but, then again, no place is really safe these days, especially when some folks view older citizens as easy targets. Part of me says having a rifle at the ready with several hundred rounds loaded is foolishness, but the other part tells me it is no more foolish than when I lived in the city and had several pistols stashed in different rooms of the house so I would never be caught off guard.
    Sounds like me and my place. Only way to get thru my cattle gate is to crash or know the code to open, 6 ft game fence with barbed wire on top, house on the military crest of the hill at 1700 ft. Road leading to the house is curved in several place and goes around my pond, can't see the gate from the house but on top the house I have a deck and can see for miles and down into the small valley and the road on top of the dam. Fixed power around 3.x is great for quick use be it distance or very close in, good solid basic for when you need to shoot now and move and shoot again....2 gun solution.

    L) AR 15, 5.56, bipod, 3x scope; R) AR 10 Sniper grade, .308 3.5 Trijicon

    img_0642_med.jpg


    AR 10

    img_0633_med.jpg
     

    FireInTheWire

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    Sounds like me and my place. Only way to get thru my cattle gate is to crash or know the code to open, 6 ft game fence with barbed wire on top, house on the military crest of the hill at 1700 ft. Road leading to the house is curved in several place and goes around my pond, can't see the gate from the house but on top the house I have a deck and can see for miles and down into the small valley and the road on top of the dam. Fixed power around 3.x is great for quick use be it distance or very close in, good solid basic for when you need to shoot now and move and shoot again....2 gun solution.

    L) AR 15, 5.56, bipod, 3x scope; R) AR 10 Sniper grade, .308 3.5 Trijicon

    View attachment 139854

    AR 10

    View attachment 139855

    Nice place... nice rifles... you got it going on
     

    Big Green

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    I too will recommend an ACOG, specifically the TA31RCO. That's the one we used in the Marine Corps.

    PMAGs, only way to go as far as magazines.

    Thermal? Absolutely if you can afford it.

    Suppressor? Again, if you can afford it they are definitely worth having.

    Have you handled a larger 308 sized AR? If that is too much weapon, here's some food for thought. The advice about a 300BLK is sound and on a regular AR you can have an upper in both 556 and 300BLK.

    Also, I would recommend a 16" barrel, especially if going suppressed. A can on the end of longer barrels can be unwieldy for some. A 16" barrel will have no problem at those distances and the can will gain you back a few FPS.
     

    oldag

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    A 5.56/ 223 rifle is more than enough to drop a 2 legged predator at 300 yards especially with a head shot.

    A 308 is better but pushing overkill for what the OP is asking. A 338 Lapua at 300 yards? That just tells me you watch too many movies.

    No such thing as overkill. ;)
     

    seeker_two

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    That place east of Waco....
    The two bolt-action rifles you have should dissuade any evildoers at the 300-150yd distances you have. If the perps are more brave than smart and keep coming, any AR carbine with iron sights or a red dot will do. Even a good .30-30 levergun will handle that situation.....

    ....unless you're expecting the Chinese Army to cross the river. In that case, you should probably move.

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    Ole Cowboy

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    Someone always gets thru the barrier and there are times you have to leave the safety of the fort and hunt them down and take'um out. For that that you need to carry a CQB rifle to move in and trees, rocks and bushes.

    For that I like the IWI X95 w/EOTech XP S2

    img_0129_med.jpg
     

    gdr_11

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    This has been a fun exercise and a learning one too. Glad I am not the only one to overthink this and I appreciate the info and especially like Ole Cowboy's perspective and setup. I ran this issue past another local around here and he said he had a vehicle barrier that he could slip into place behind his cattle gate given 15 minutes and the forks on his tractor. That means anyone coming in would have to cross 400 yards of open space with no cover. He suggested an AR15 with a bump stock and a 100 rd mag so you could spray an unholy amount of lead in the general direction of any intruders and that should send them running. If not, then he plans on using a 30-06 with good optics to pick off as many as possible with the realization that once they get close you are pretty much toast anyway.

    Interesting how different people view this issue.
     
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