Thoughts on Saiga 12
- Thread starter commandernavi
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Three factors at play:
ATF Study http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf
Red Jacket Firearms "Sons of Guns" on Discovery Channel
Izhmash is doing a bankruptcy reorganization
Which has nothing at all to do with the Saiga. It is unscrupulous vendors who are tooting this horn, and pointing to this document as the reason they're charging a 120% markup on Saiga-12s.
This is getting old.
This story has popped up in the news for several years in a row, coincidentally about the same time the "Saigas are going to be banned" rumors show up. How long are they going to "go through bankruptcy reorganization"? Is that an annual sporting event in Russia or something?
Besides, their majority owner is the Russian government (which isn't about to let its source of arms go away).
And this is partially the reason for posting about the Akdal MKA 1919 ar 12. See it was the orginal subject of the "study reguarding the importablity of certain shotguns". This study has been concluded and pistol grips HAVE been deemed sporting. So Izmash enjoying it's recent gain in popularity will continue to maintiain their current price run. However this potential new competition from the MKA should relieve prices some. Also it may mean that saigas might begin to be imported in thier original configuration. Just my two cents.
What does this mean for other Saiga models? I actually first came on this site since I saw the WTB forums since I want to get a Saiga 5.45x39 in the near future. I didn't know about the company going into bankruptcy :O.
How would this restructuring affect their products and prices in the few years to come (poolingmyignorance, how long do you think prices will hold out this low on the other calibers besides the Saiga 12)? I really want to get a Saiga now since I am afraid prices will keep rising, but maybe I am playing this wrong? Are there better deals on Saigas (e.g. converted already like you said, to come)?
How would this restructuring affect their products and prices in the few years to come (poolingmyignorance, how long do you think prices will hold out this low on the other calibers besides the Saiga 12)? I really want to get a Saiga now since I am afraid prices will keep rising, but maybe I am playing this wrong? Are there better deals on Saigas (e.g. converted already like you said, to come)?
They're not going anywhere. The bankruptcy story is a perennial bogeyman. Did you see post #4?
I actually haven't heard that bankruptcy story before.
I had been wanting to get a S12 some time ago but had other gun-purchasing priorities because I'd always find a good deal on something. Back then you'd see S12s on Gunbroker for like $400. These days I was glad as hell to find a S12 at this past SAXET gun show in S.A. for under $700. Other forum folk at the show with me were all like, "OMG buy it, that's a great deal!" So I did, and I'm glad I did because it really is an awesome weapon. Check out my "Pimp my Saiga" topic on the Shotgun forum.
I had been wanting to get a S12 some time ago but had other gun-purchasing priorities because I'd always find a good deal on something. Back then you'd see S12s on Gunbroker for like $400. These days I was glad as hell to find a S12 at this past SAXET gun show in S.A. for under $700. Other forum folk at the show with me were all like, "OMG buy it, that's a great deal!" So I did, and I'm glad I did because it really is an awesome weapon. Check out my "Pimp my Saiga" topic on the Shotgun forum.
December 2010\Jan 2011 it was a different story. The bankruptcy was legit and the factory had announced it was stopping production..............but the .ru gov bailed them out before weapon production stopped.
Honestly there is still some uncertainty about the continuing reorg of the factory and location where these rifles will be continued to be built.
That said for now they're still pumping out guns.
Google Translate
Production of weapons remain in Izhmash
I need to find the forum where workers talk about the factory and what's going on there form an insider perspective. I've lost the link though.
Honestly there is still some uncertainty about the continuing reorg of the factory and location where these rifles will be continued to be built.
That said for now they're still pumping out guns.
Google Translate
Production of weapons remain in Izhmash
I need to find the forum where workers talk about the factory and what's going on there form an insider perspective. I've lost the link though.
I have been looking at the s12. I really wanted one, but after researching it, IMO there are very few reasons to justify an S12 over a Mossberg 930 which is cheaper. For less than the base S12 that you are still probably going to move the trigger, swap the stock, etc. you can get a tricked out 930 like:
Mossberg 930 SPX Special Purpose Extreme PG 12 GA! : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com
Mossberg 930 SPX Special Purpose Extreme PG 12 GA! : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com
Yea a mossy is nice. But 20 round capacty mag swaps? With double stack 20's comming from MD Arms. Nothign on the market's ever gonna compare to that. Even if you don't covert your saiga, they'er damn fine shotguns. Just slightly inferior erogronimics to an AK. Compared to loading a tube...do I even need to elaborate?
Keep in mind I said: "there are very few reasons to justify an S12 over a Mossberg 930". Obviously capacity is one of them, however in a practical sense, if I need more than 10 rounds plus what I can sneek in to top off during pauses, I am in deep shit that probably won't be fixed by detachable magazines.
Another reason is you can't do a folding stock, though again from a practical standpoint I am not sure it would make a real difference.
Another reason is you can't do a folding stock, though again from a practical standpoint I am not sure it would make a real difference.
Thanks guys. That does leave me with a grim picture though. I really wanted an S12 but since the prices spiked I figured on getting a Saiga 5.45x39. Worried that the same might happen to them too. :S I really wanted a converted one though that most gun stores don't offer at prices I would be willing to pay. Anybody know where I might be able to more efficiently find somebody willing to sell theirs to me (I already posted in the WTB thread, but dry so far).
Back to the S12 though. In terms of reliability is the Mossberg 930 better than it? How about on accuracy (yes, I know shotguns aren't made for that, but I might want to hunt with slugs later on). I was considering the 930 as my first shotgun buy a while ago but people said the Saiga was the better choice. Since the price spike, I don't know anymore
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Back to the S12 though. In terms of reliability is the Mossberg 930 better than it? How about on accuracy (yes, I know shotguns aren't made for that, but I might want to hunt with slugs later on). I was considering the 930 as my first shotgun buy a while ago but people said the Saiga was the better choice. Since the price spike, I don't know anymore
.From what I have read only...no experience with either...the 930 they are equally reliable from a breakage standpoint. From a feeding/ejecting standpoint, the 930 seems to be more reliable. Supposedly even with the manual gas adjust , the S12 can be finiky with some ammo, where the 930 auto adjusts and digests anything. You can also swap barrels with the 930 and get a slug barrel.
The_Hunter
Active Member
For what it is worth, I took a brand new 930 to the ranch last weekend. My buddies and I ran about 500 shells down the tube (9 round capacity + auto pitching clay machine = hella good time) it ran 100%. I know this is a 1 of 1 sample but I am really happy with it.
