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Timing Belts and all that jazz

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  • TheCytochromeC

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    I'm doing my timing belt on my MKV GTI at the moment. I'm replacing all the hardware affiliated with the timing system including the water pump. My motor is an interference motor which means if the timing is slightly off, the valves will contact the pistons. I've never done this before so it's a big learning experience for me. Anyone here do theirs? Ever work on interference timing belts? Thank god you only have to do this around every 100,000 miles.
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    rsayloriii

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    Not on that engine, but done plenty of them. No big deal overall. Take your time and make sure the marks line up and the belt is correct direction... belt direction may not matter on your engine, but on my v8 it does otherwise the marks won't line up.

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    a44mag4dave

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    Check your marks, check them again, and then recheck them. At this stage I usually rotate the crankshaft back and forth several degrees then re-align the marks. Check your marks again. Rotate the crankshaft 1 full cycle by hand and recheck your marks. Remember 1 cycle equals 720*. Then recheck your hardware to insure they are tight. I know it seems like a lot of checking the marks, but if it saves your engine then it is well worth it.
     

    Shotgun Jeremy

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    If you've got it that torn apart and working on something that can be catastrophic if done wrong, there's no hurt in taking your time and checking everything.
     

    Das Jared

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    If you haven't torn into it yet, there is a guy in austin that specializes in VW timing belt jobs. That's all he does. Imo, if you've never done it before, that is something wayyyy to critical to just try for the first time.

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    M. Sage

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    That's an easy one, depending a bit on which tensioner it uses. I've probably done hundreds of 'em.

    Good idea to upgrade to a metal impeller water pump while you're in there. Make sure you use the VW G12 coolant. And a thermostat couldn't hurt.
     

    TheCytochromeC

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    If you haven't torn into it yet, there is a guy in austin that specializes in VW timing belt jobs. That's all he does. Imo, if you've never done it before, that is something wayyyy to critical to just try for the first time.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

    Is his name Zach? I'm using his DIY on the VW forums. I considered giving him a call because he was willing to travel for moderate prices. I'm aware of the risk but I want to do this myself correctly. It's something that I'll pride myself in when I'm finished. Check the thread here if you'd care. DIY: 2.0T FSI Timing Belt Replacement for GTI/A3/Jetta - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com


    Sage, mines an 07' 2.0T FSI

    I have a metal impeller on the new pump. I also got VW G12 coolant. Also, a good number of the hardware bolts are stretch bolts so they have to be replaced - I have those too. After I replace the timing and hardware I'll go on to the manual valve cleaning process. I'm thinking of using a shotgun bore brush rigged to a drill to speed the process up a bit. I'm sure at too high of an RPM it can be a bad idea but I think it may save some hand aches and clean well without damaging. After that, I'm replacing the ignition coil packs and dropping in a new set of plugs. My injectors have about 16K miles on them so I don't need to replace them yet. Other than that and basic filters I should be ready for another 120K miles.
     
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    Das Jared

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    Is his name Zach? I'm using his DIY on the VW forums. I considered giving him a call because he was willing to travel for moderate prices. I'm aware of the risk but I want to do this myself correctly. It's something that I'll pride myself in when I'm finished. Check the thread here if you'd care to, which you probably won't. DIY: 2.0T FSI Timing Belt Replacement for GTI/A3/Jetta - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com


    Sage, mines an 07' 2.0T FSI

    I have a metal impeller on the new pump. I also got VW G12 coolant. Also, a good number of the hardware bolts are stretch bolts so they have to be replaced - I have those too. After I replace the timing and hardware I'll go on to the manual valve cleaning process. I'm thinking of using a shotgun bore brush rigged to a drill to speed the process up a bit. I'm sure at too high of an RPM it can be a bad idea but I think it may save some hand aches and clean well without damaging. After that, I'm replacing the ignition coil packs and dropping in a new set of plugs. My injectors have about 16K miles on them so I don't need to replace them yet. Other than that and basic filters I should be ready for another 120K miles.

    Yup that's him.

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    TheCytochromeC

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    Yup that's him.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

    Yeah he's a super nice guy for making that thread. At first I thought, "Damn 350$ in just parts, that's going to cut into my gun budget." Then I thought, "Well I'm saving about $1300 in labor for everything I'm doing. So I'm really saving my gun budget!" I hope this isn't misinterpreted to be a statement implying I'm only doing this to save money. I'm not, I'm doing this to become a better "mechanic" and tell the stealerships to shove it because I can take just as good care of my car as them, if not better.
     

    M. Sage

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    I've used a pocket screwdriver and dental picks for the valve cleaning. I think the shotgun brush will be on the big side and you need to reach the back of the valves. Just remember not to clean valves that are open. That stuff is way harder to get off the valves than it sounds.

    Wondered about the 06 thing because those ate intake cams in addition to their other admirable qualities. Seen a couple of chain tensioner failures in those FSI mills, too...
     

    rsayloriii

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    Yeah he's a super nice guy for making that thread. At first I thought, "Damn 350$ in just parts, that's going to cut into my gun budget." Then I thought, "Well I'm saving about $1300 in labor for everything I'm doing. So I'm really saving my gun budget!" I hope this isn't misinterpreted to be a statement implying I'm only doing this to save money. I'm not, I'm doing this to become a better "mechanic" and tell the stealerships to shove it because I can take just as good care of my car as them, if not better.

    There's nothing wrong with saving money by doing it yourself. Couple that with your statement of wanting to become a better mechanic and it's all win. I do it because I don't trust anyone else. On top of that, too many instances of mechanics doing something to get you back in for an "unrelated" incidence. Ruins it for all the honest ones out there. Only thing I've taken to get done are tires since I don't have a balancer ... if I did, I wouldn't take it to anyone for anything.
     

    scap99

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    There's nothing wrong with saving money by doing it yourself. Couple that with your statement of wanting to become a better mechanic and it's all win. I do it because I don't trust anyone else. On top of that, too many instances of mechanics doing something to get you back in for an "unrelated" incidence. Ruins it for all the honest ones out there. Only thing I've taken to get done are tires since I don't have a balancer ... if I did, I wouldn't take it to anyone for anything.

    Old school...
    http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-wheel-balancer-39741.html

    But it's damn near impossible to mount modern tires on rims at home, anymore...

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    TheCytochromeC

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    I've used a pocket screwdriver and dental picks for the valve cleaning. I think the shotgun brush will be on the big side and you need to reach the back of the valves. Just remember not to clean valves that are open. That stuff is way harder to get off the valves than it sounds.

    Wondered about the 06 thing because those ate intake cams in addition to their other admirable qualities. Seen a couple of chain tensioner failures in those FSI mills, too...

    Lol for sure. I'll rotate the crank to close the valves so I can fill them and clean them. Yeah there were two cam versions in the early MKV GTI's one eats can followers for lunch (25-40k)and the other... Well I replaced mine for the first time at 110k. It freaked some people out. Imglad it didn't fracture and essentially destroy the motor. I'll probably check it every 30K now.

    I've gotten down to the nutty gritty now. I'm goin to pull the let off and transpose the marks tomorrow. I may now get the new belt on tomorrow though as I have to replace all the hardware still.
     

    TheCytochromeC

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    There's nothing wrong with saving money by doing it yourself. Couple that with your statement of wanting to become a better mechanic and it's all win. I do it because I don't trust anyone else. On top of that, too many instances of mechanics doing something to get you back in for an "unrelated" incidence. Ruins it for all the honest ones out there. Only thing I've taken to get done are tires since I don't have a balancer ... if I did, I wouldn't take it to anyone for anything.


    I didn't mean to imply that it's wrong to do your own repairs to save money. But that wasn't the single reason, it's actually one of many. I'm glad we agree! Let's face it, we all want more money in our gun budget!
     

    TheCytochromeC

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    If you have a turbo on that thing, make sure you get it timed with your #1 Cylinder or you're gonna have a bad day.

    Yeah I believe there's a marking on the camshaft gear that is etched from the factory that you line up with the block cover. I believe that represents TDC for the first cylinder to fire.
     

    M. Sage

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    Lol for sure. I'll rotate the crank to close the valves so I can fill them and clean them. Yeah there were two cam versions in the early MKV GTI's one eats can followers for lunch (25-40k)and the other... Well I replaced mine for the first time at 110k. It freaked some people out. Imglad it didn't fracture and essentially destroy the motor. I'll probably check it every 30K now.

    I've gotten down to the nutty gritty now. I'm goin to pull the let off and transpose the marks tomorrow. I may now get the new belt on tomorrow though as I have to replace all the hardware still.

    Later cams seem to be OK. Totally different design.

    Never heard of them "fracturing". Just the weird triangular lobe for the HP fuel pump failing, taking out the follower and sometimes the pump with it.

    I do have a lobe off one of those cams rattling around in my toolbox, though. Odd way to make a cam - put lobes on a tube, squeeze the tube to distort it and hold the lobes on... They come off pretty easy with a few light taps with a hammer.
     

    TheCytochromeC

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    Well I finished the job Friday. Everything seems to have gone well. No leaks have been detected, temperature is ideal and my motor didn't go "bing bing bing!" when I started it. It was a really educational experience and I'm surprised we pulled it off. I think I'll be much better a it the second time around.
     
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