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Trigger question

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  • Kerbouchard

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    There are tons of guns that don't require a trigger job. The only firearm I have ever gotten a trigger job done on was an XD-9, and while it helped, it still wasn't what I was looking for.

    After my first 1911, I've never looked back. In that price range you can pick up a decent Kimber, Springfield Armory or Colt 1911 and possibly still have some left over for a nice holster.

    Anything in particular you are looking for in a carry gun?

    P.S. If you trust Massad Ayoob, whom I don't necessarily agree with on this one, he has made it widely known that he does not recommend trigger jobs on carry pieces. He feels it might give a DA or prosecutor additional ammo, so to speak. He thinks anything other than factory could give the impression to a jury that you were looking for a 'better killing machine'. I don't agree necessarily agree with him, and I don't think it is an issue in Texas, but just figured I would throw it out there as some added info.
     

    Badcast

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    Feb 25, 2009
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    I looking for a 9mm, somthing my wife can shoot also. I have med. size hands so hi cap is out. I'm kind of overwhelmed from all the info I've read and don't want to get something I'll be trading in a month. Most of my shooting will be behind my house. This will be my primary carry. I had know idea a trigger job would give a DA a little ammo.

    Randy
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    Pretty much any stock da/sa Sig has a real nice single action trigger pull. Usually their DA pulls are on the heavy side. Most Sig's sa pulls are usually only 4.5lbs, are smooth, and break very cleanly. For something more carry-sized, from Sig there is the P228, P229, P239, P230/232, P245/220 Compact, P220 Carry (a bit on the larger size), and Sig Pro series.

    The H&K P7 is quite possibly the world's greatest carry gun, ever. Though, due to their unique manual of arms, it is sort of a love it or hate it thing. If you like them and can deal with the squeeze cocking design, they have a very nice trigger, minimal muzzle flip due to the low bore axis, and are very accurate, plus they are the safest handgun ever made.
     

    Jimlakeside

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    In my personal opinion, while trigger pull is important, it should not the deciding factor in which gun to buy. First should be reliability, then how the gun fits your hand, and then trigger pull. Most triggers can be adjusted or with practice you can get use to them. That said shoot as many guns as you can and then decide.
     

    40Arpent

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    P.S. If you trust Massad Ayoob, whom I don't necessarily agree with on this one, he has made it widely known that he does not recommend trigger jobs on carry pieces. He feels it might give a DA or prosecutor additional ammo, so to speak. He thinks anything other than factory could give the impression to a jury that you were looking for a 'better killing machine'. I don't agree necessarily agree with him, and I don't think it is an issue in Texas, but just figured I would throw it out there as some added info.

    Do such modifications come up in trial very often?
     

    Kerbouchard

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    Do such modifications come up in trial very often?

    I am unaware of it ever coming up in trial. On defensivecarry.com, Massad occasionally posts, and we have asked for examples of cases, but we never got them. He does have case evidence of DA's calling Hollow Point bullets 'specially designed to kill', so who knows what a DA will say.

    I guess it doesn't really matter what the truth is, or even if a defense attorney objects. It pretty much comes down to what the jury thinks, and I could see his point that a lightened trigger could look bad. Especially, if in the aftermath of the shooting you accidentally mutter, 'I didn't want to shoot him'.

    While I would never want to shoot somebody, I could see how a modified trigger and that statement could turn a justified shoot into negligent homicide.

    I'm not exactly superstitious, but the only mods I have made to any of my carry pieces are night sights and changing the grips.

    FWIW, I believe he also objects to laser grips. He knows a lot more than I do, but he is also speaking nationally. I don't think we have the same problems here in Texas that somebody in say, New York, would have.

    If you haven't had the chance, read some of his books or his articles. While I don't always agree with everything he says, he knows what he's talking about, and a lot can be learned from him.
     

    navyguy

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    I guess there might be something to that theory that a trigger job could be an issue in a court case. But I see no problem in making the tool you depend on to possibly save your life, function better. If . It's prudent to be mindful of such issues, but you can't worry about every little thing. Just be sure you're doing the right thing when you draw your weapon.

    Reputable gun smiths either won't do are will strongly not recommend lighter than 4.5 lbs SA and 7-8 lb DA for a carry/defense gun.

    FWIW, my carry guns are stock, except a p228 which I've installed a reduced power main spring which brought the DA down from about 10 lbs to about 9 lbs. That did not affect the SA much which is at 4.75 lbs ~

    All that said, I think Sigs have the best out of the box triggers around. Sometimes a new one will be a little gritty, but 200-300 rounds or dry fires will fix that. And a reduced power main spring is a $7 deal, and can help the DA quite a bit.
     

    JKTex

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    Oh geez, why is it the ridiculous "legal" crap always comes up when someone asked about any modification to a gun? It's ludicrous. If you disagree, show me a case where this has ever happened.

    Lets try to get the thread back on topic and out of silly land....

    The question is really missing info. What kind of gun? Then the answer will still likely be what's already been said, it depends on the shooter.

    If you're talking 1911, out of production guns, Kimber has one of, if not the best trigger out of the box. If you want to change the pull, $50 and a good smith can lighten it up or make it heavier. Many people like a heavier 4-5# trigger for a carry gun yet most any "expert" will say never go below 3# except on competition guns.

    But as far as a sweet trigger, Kimber is hard to beat in that price range.

    Now if you want one that'll make you drool, I know a certain Custom Builder that just finished a Colt Commander project that is ready for sale as of yesterday and I guarantee, if just looking at it doesn't send blood rushing out of your brain, feeling the trigger and the action will. It's a little more, well quite a bit more than $600-$800 though. You migh need to sell a car to pay for it. But I guarantee you'll agree it won't need a trigger job.

    yy7copy.jpg
     

    JKTex

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    What carry size guns come from the factory that dont require a trigger job. Is there any in the $600-800 range.

    Thanks
    Randy

    Here is badcast's question. It has nothing to do with anything legal. It's a valid question but very incomplete as we don't know what kind of gun he's looking for which makes a big difference in the type of trigger it'll have.

    We can only assume it's a gun he plans on carrying. The only thing I've ever actually see any "expert" discuss when talking about the ambiguous term, "trigger job" is what the application requires. Such as a rule of thumb that a carry or duty gun would be best with a heavier trigger and competition guns very light.

    Apparently I hurt some feelings with my reply about the silly legal issue. It was aimed at the topic, not a person, as it had no place based on the OP's question. And it's also one of those topics that never goes anywhere because the best anyone can do is claim Massad Ayoob has written about legal issues in cases of justified shootings with guns that have had trigger jobs. I've never seen it, and no one can substatiate it but since Mr. Ayoob is a businessman and sells words for a living, there's a lot of stuff with his name on it to buy and read if you want to try to find it.

    Common sense says that if you aim a gun and a person and pull the trigger, no one cares if you had to pull a 2# trigger or a 8# trigger. You aimed and shot and that is the crime. If you didn't mean to shoot, the crime is still bigger than trigger weight. But that's off topic here.
     

    Badcast

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    The gun will be used for carry. I just want to get the best gun for the money. I've only shot a few guns and not much to pic from. You guys gave me some good ones to check out.

    Randy
     

    navyguy

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    Sans 1911's, and assuming you're looking for DA/SA, then IMHO Sigs have the best out of the box triggers. Reasonable DA pull, and SA at pretty much what you want for carry. Factory specs on most models is 10 DA and 4.4 SA. Mine measured about that out of the box. I like Sigs, but mostly carry HK. My P2000's weigh in with 11 lb DA and 5 lb SA, and although they do not break quite as clean as the Sigs, they're pretty good.

    If you leaning toward striker fired, Glock is king in that arena. Semi DAO system, with about a 5.5 lb pull.

    Bear in mind, not every gun suites every shooter, (or we'd only have one brand) so if try as many as you can. Too bad you're from out of state, else you could come to one of the group shoots and I'll bet you could shoot a bunch of different guns. I'm always open to letting someone run a mag or two out of my guns if they are interested.
     

    Vellcrow

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    If you leaning toward striker fired, Glock is king in that arena. Semi DAO system, with about a 5.5 lb pull.

    I think Kahr has Glock beat in that area. I carry a G19 and my wife has the K9, I like her trigger a little better. Too bad it costs extra for me to have a metal trigger.
     

    JKTex

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    It sounds lie maybe, "best trigger" is jumping the "gun" so to speak then.

    I doubt any respectable production gun, any variant, is going to have a trigger that is not more than acceptable, especially for SD purposes. Target only or competition or any kind of accuracy shooting is a whole other issue.

    If you're in a situation where you need to shoot to save your life, I doubt you'll care if it's a trigger like my Kimber's that break clean like a crystal rod or the trigger of a Glock, like mine which to me feels like a big clunky toy gun. Dry fire both side by side and the Kimber wins hands down plus some. Shoot for protection and who cares how good the trigger felt.

    I can shoot either one well, the Glock surprisingly well regardless of how the trigger feels, and actually, when nerves and fear are in control, that big heavy, clunky Glock trigger might give the extra resistance to maintain better control. Either way, if I pull the trigger, I'm pretty sure I won't know or care how the trigger felt but I know that I meant to do it.

    I'd start with the basics and handle different guns until you find something that feels right, then try to shoot it and see if it still feels right.
     

    Kerbouchard

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    Badcast, the XD(M)9 has a much better trigger than the original XD and can be had in your price range. It might be worth a look.

    As has been said before, you really need to find a range where you can try out several side by side.
     

    Badcast

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    Thanks for the help guys, you gave me a good place to start. I had another question. Is Gunbrokers .com a good place to compare prices or is there another site to get a basic retail price. Also what factory ammo for 9mm has clean burning powder and where is the best to get it.
     
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