Ukraine invasion

[easy rider]

I think "knowing it's a lie" is they key phrase here. Nobody has any faith that he truly believes half of what he says. Especially when trying to rephrase things he's told just to suit his purposes.

Does he know it's a lie, or is that your assessment? And if you know he will just lie, why engage it?

 

[General Zod]

Does he know it's a lie, or is that your assessment? And if you know he will just lie, why engage it?

When someone is knowingly spreading disinformation, should we just let it lie? Nothing good comes of that.

 

[Johnny Diamond]

Sigh...

Have you ever read his speech?

Where does it, as the article you posted assert, mention intervention in the invasion of a free and sovereign nation?

Admas is warning against intervention to simply make things convenient for us. He nobwhere suggestes we should not fight shoulder to shoulder with a free nation to help them against a tyrant.


Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives on Foreign Policy (July 4, 1821)
John Quincy Adams, Secretary of State
Transcript

AND NOW, FRIENDS AND COUNTRYMEN, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of
nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and
Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind?
Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind
the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of
nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest
friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity.
She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of
equal justice, and of equal rights.
She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while
asserting and maintaining her own.
She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings,
as to the last vital drop that visits the heart.
She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of
inveterate power, and emerging right.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and
her prayers be.
But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence,
she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy,
and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....
She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

Glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto
upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary
intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice

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Amazing, how eloquent and sincere our representatives once were. Sadly there has not been many of either ilk for some time indeed.

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[easy rider]

When someone is knowingly spreading disinformation, should we just let it lie? Nothing good comes of that.

Debate is to get opinions from all sides. Who's the arbiter of disinformation? If your argument is enough to sway another's opinion, it doesn't mean it's right, you just had a better argument. As far as Ukraine goes? You can find articles that points in any way you can think of. I weigh my opinion on the current administration of which I have very little if any faith of doing what's right. So is my opinion in the U.S. support of Ukraine deemed misinformation? And if so, by whom?

 

[General Zod]

Debate is to get opinions from all sides. Who's the arbiter of disinformation? If your argument is enough to sway another's opinion, it doesn't mean it's right, you just had a better argument. As far as Ukraine goes? You can find articles that points in any way you can think of. I weigh my opinion on the current administration of which I have very little if any faith of doing what's right. So is my opinion in the U.S. support of Ukraine deemed misinformation? And if so, by whom?

The idiocy of the current administration does little to color my support for Ukraine's fight. The saying "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" comes into play - and especially early on it was obvious the administration was only offering aid grudgingly. Consider the Polish offer of MiG-29s from last year that they wanted to transfer through US custody, and the administration killed it. But now here we are with NATO members (including Poland) providing those MiGs, and the administration facilitating the transfer of F-16s from member states. What changed? This administration makes a lot of noise about leadership, but just like Obama they're content to lead from the back.

I haven't seen much of your opinion, but I have seen that you're not making clearly false assertations that fly in the face of any information that wasn't quoting (sometimes word-for-word) Russian propaganda. Info that comes from the Kremlin is, in my opinion, quite likely to be disinformation, whether the one providing it admits is ultimate source or not. I'm pretty sure that's a reasonable opinion.

 

[easy rider]

The idiocy of the current administration does little to color my support for Ukraine's fight. The saying "even a stopped clock is right twice a day" comes into play - and especially early on it was obvious the administration was only offering aid grudgingly. Consider the Polish offer of MiG-29s from last year that they wanted to transfer through US custody, and the administration killed it. But now here we are with NATO members (including Poland) providing those MiGs, and the administration facilitating the transfer of F-16s from member states. What changed? This administration makes a lot of noise about leadership, but just like Obama they're content to lead from the back.

I haven't seen much of your opinion, but I have seen that you're not making clearly false assertations that fly in the face of any information that wasn't quoting (sometimes word-for-word) Russian propaganda. Info that comes from the Kremlin is, in my opinion, quite likely to be disinformation, whether the one providing it admits is ultimate source or not. I'm pretty sure that's a reasonable opinion.

Look. I respect your opinion and opinions of others, and I can express my opinion of disagreement of yours or others, but that's where it should end. One shouldn't make assumptions of character, if so it diminishes your former argument. If you make assumptions there, then what's to say your whole argument isn't based on assumption?

 

[General Zod]

Look. I respect your opinion and opinions of others, and I can express my opinion of disagreement of yours or others, but that's where it should end. One shouldn't make assumptions of character, if so it diminishes your former argument. If you make assumptions there, then what's to say your whole argument isn't based on assumption?

When character is clearly displayed, then it's hardly an assumption. As for the quality of my other arguments, well, I present my sources and let others read them. Not everyone here is willing to...which also leads me to doubt the validity of their "information". Presenting opinions, sourced news articles and analysis, and discussing the situation is exactly where it should end. Some folks are incapable of participating in a discussion like that.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Debate is to get opinions from all sides. Who's the arbiter of disinformation? If your argument is enough to sway another's opinion, it doesn't mean it's right, you just had a better argument. As far as Ukraine goes? You can find articles that points in any way you can think of. I weigh my opinion on the current administration of which I have very little if any faith of doing what's right. So is my opinion in the U.S. support of Ukraine deemed misinformation? And if so, by whom?

You are attempting to arbitrate what isnt disinformation...


Reasonable people can disagree, but when one is essentially preaching a flat-earth equivalent of "opinion" regarding Ukraine I feel free to use such terms as liar, stupid and parrot.

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[Havok1]

More proof that you only read part of what I say, and fill the rest in with your own ego. My whole disagreement with you is that you back your position up with bullshit and never want to provide your sources - and the few times you do you do everything you can to make the information hard to find.

And yes, much of what you say is lies. And until you provide sources for your claims that will remain my opinion of you.

Now. Seriously. Show me where I've ever said we should "blindly support Ukraine". Show me where I've said there should be no oversight. You can't, because I haven't. Liar.

You calling me a liar still does not make it true. It hasn’t been that long since the same people who liked one of your posts also liked the post where you denied making the post. While you may not have directly said what I suggested you did(most recently that is), that mindset is clear in your posts when you constantly argue against anything that is not in favor of funding the proxy war.

The reason I don’t go out of my way to find information for you is because it’s not worth the time to find something for you after you have repeatedly shown you are incapable of understanding information that is presented to you. Examples of this include the bar graph showing aid to ukraine, that you couldn’t understand only showed a few of the countries funding the war, as well as you sharing a link with dialog from Naftali bennetts interview where he said the US blocked his negotiations, and then continuing to ask for evidence of him saying that.

 

[Havok1]

They bring it upon themselves when he lies and posts things without supporting or contextual information.

When someone has shown themselves to be untrustworthy, that is important information to consider when they say something and refuse to back it up with anything.

Havok has repeatedly been dead wrong on the few things we can get him to commit to
Havok has repeatedly posted other's statements out of context with the intent to make it seem as if they were taking a different position (aka lying)

Havok (and a couple of others) has repeatedly posted or regurgitated straight up russian propaganda which has absolutely no basis in reality.

So yeah, when he posts something and doesnt back it up reminding others of his past lies is totally justified

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You actually haven’t shown anything that I’ve been dead wrong about. You also haven’t shown any example of me posting Russian propaganda. You haven’t shown anything I have lied about either. just because something contradicts what you read on your favorite Twitter page does not make it untrue, or Russian propaganda.

 

[General Zod]

You calling me a liar still does not make it true. It hasn’t been that long since the same people who liked one of your posts also liked the post where you denied making the post. While you may not have directly said what I suggested you did(most recently that is), that mindset is clear in your posts when you constantly argue against anything that is not in favor of funding the proxy war.

The reason I don’t go out of my way to find information for you is because it’s not worth the time to find something for you after you have repeatedly shown you are incapable of understanding information that is presented to you. Examples of this include the bar graph showing aid to ukraine, that you couldn’t understand only showed a few of the countries funding the war, as well as you sharing a link with dialog from Naftali bennetts interview where he said the US blocked his negotiations, and then continuing to ask for evidence of him saying that.

No, the reason you don't "go out of your way" to provide proof of your assertions is because then you'd have to search all over the internet to find things you can point to. If you've got proof, then it's not hard for you to find it again. Do you know the easiest way to out a liar on the internet? Ask them to back up their assertions and they'll say "I'm not doing your research for you."

As for Bennet, first you said that he claimed the US blocked his efforts, then when you were presented with the subsequent interview where he said directly that he had been mistranslated, you still insisted that he said he had been blocked, and then when pressed on the issue you claimed you had never said it was Bennet who said it. So now it's Bennet again?

This is why I call you a liar. Because you lie.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

These are the days of our lives...

 

[General Zod]

@easy rider Here's that shitshow I mentioned.

 

[Havok1]

A laudable goal. Some folks just can't stand it when they're disagreed with, though. And that's what all of this bullshit stems from.

Like you and the couple other people who constantly call others trolls, and liars because they don’t support the proxy war? Who was it again that was talking about going to someone’s house and taking their computer away?

 

[General Zod]

Like you and the couple other people who constantly call others trolls, and liars because they don’t support the proxy war? Who was it again that was talking about going to someone’s house and taking their computer away?

You're not the victim here, Havok. And oh no, I was sarcastic toward someone repeatedly making an idiotic "offer", how eeeeeevil of me.

Get off it, man. You're whining.

 

[BigRed]

And oh no, I was sarcastic toward someone repeatedly making an idiotic "offer",

It's a legit offer.

 

[General Zod]

It's a legit offer.

Bullshit. You have neither the ability nor an actual plan. You only post it here because you know there's zero chance of anyone being able to take you up on it and put you on the spot.

 

[BigRed]

Bullshit. You have neither the ability nor an actual plan. You only post it here because you know there's zero chance of anyone being able to take you up on it and put you on the spot.

You're just upset because your wife thinks I'm better looking.

 

[BigRed]

'Greetings Earth, Our Planet Desperately Needs $40 Billion In Foreign Aid!' Says Alien Commander Who Looks Suspiciously Like Zelensky In A Spirit Halloween Mask

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The media and general public were collectively unsure how to respond today, as a visiting "alien commander" from space held a press conference to ask the people of Earth to provide his planet with $40 billion in foreign aid, though witnesses said the being bore more than a...

babylonbee.com

 

[General Zod]

Your just upset because your wife thinks I'm better looking.

Exactly the level of class and intelligence I've come to expect from you. This adds exactly...what...to the conversation? Stop trolling and try to be useful.