VA and protecting the 2A

[jordanmills]

100 likes upon you this holiday season my friend!


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Also lots of stuff at http://www.miklor.com/uv5r/ We might need them before too long.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

It would be interesting to see if someone built a bunker house, loaded with about 25 or more family members and see them hold out for 60+ days like they did in Waco.

The Law Enforcement lost 4 ATF agents, and never managed to succeed in confiscating guns or arresting anyone that didn’t surrender.

if they didn’t commit suicide by burning the place down, I wonder how much longer it would have gone on. They should have held out because the ATF/FBI would have looked even worse had they stormed the building and everyone lost their lives including the agents.

I know someone here in Texas that has built for the most part a bullet proof house capable of holding back and not allowing penetration of 50bmg rounds, other then the windows. If they are open and the shutters haven’t been closed.

If the well trained FBI and ATF have screwed up multiple raids, and continue to do so. I wonder how less trained state police and sheriffs are going to mess up when they try to do raids! They will do a lot worse when they try!

 

[WT_Foxtrot]

Wow......so well said and factual and powerful to boot. Love it. Thanks for posting.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Here what I know..and believe.

The Virginia bills will pass, without question. Someone or a group will file a lawsuit in federal court. It will take 3.5yrs minimum and about 1.5 million dollars to overturn the laws with SCOTUS assuming SCOTUS will even hear the case. Democrats will delay as much as possible in hopes that The case won’t appear before SCOTUS before the 2024 election and their democratic president wins and takes office. if that’s the case SCOTUS will lean more liberal.

In the mean time, Virginia and the AG WILL enforce the laws, prosecute and send people to prison, those that they catch. The ones that they catch, will be the ones that are reported by someone else, or by those who are too stupid and take their illegal items in the car or other vehicle and get discovered in a traffic stop.

Another group of gun owners who don’t want to risk going to jail or being killed, will turn in their guns, or they will dispose of them as quickly as they can.

Another group will hide their illegal guns, and will tell everyone that they were lost in a fire, or boating accident, or stolen etc... They will sit by and do absolutely nothing in hopes that eventually the laws will change.

And finally the very last group, which will be a small minority will actually be willing to risk jail, as well as death and fight anyone who tries to take their guns. These are the ones you will hear in the news that killed a few officers and then were killed themselves.

maybe just maybe and hopefully will be a group of people that have held out as long as those in Waco did, or like other big mistakes and hold outs that the FBI and ATF have done in the past. However in this case, it will be the Virginia state police and sheriffs who are nowhere as well trained as the FBI and ATF, and will make a nationwide embarrassment of themselves.

The governor won’t call out the NG, because they would have to declare martial law, and by that time, I believe our federal government would step in.

Basically there won’t actually be enough people who will risk going to jail, and risk dying to get up and do what they can to prevent even forcibly any law enforcement come knocking on doors.

if Virginians are going to stop them going door to door, they will have to come together in thousands and all those thousands be willing to risk going to jail as well as loosing their lives for the cause. Sadly I think and believe that those numbers in Virginia willing to do that are less then 1000 in the entire state.

Seriously how many of you are willing to loose your life or go to prison fighting the cause and preventing door to door confiscation?

I am... but I don’t think many will.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Must be true, you posted it verbatim in 3 threads.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

One other addendum I want to make to m previous post...

I doubt that they will come knocking door to door to confiscate any guns knowing exactly what could happen.

They will be like California, New York, New Jersey, Mass who won’t go door to door, and will be happy arresting those who don’t comply when they are turned in, or discovered in routine traffic stops.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Must be true, you posted it verbatim in 3 threads.

My apologies, but looking at history of the USA, looking at what has happened in other states, how the liberal democrats have indoctrinated so many etc.. etc... What our governments have done, mistakes they made. This is why I believe what I wrote, it’s an opinion and I could be wrong. If I am wrong, I hope I’m wrong in our 2A favor. I honestly hope I turn out to be wrong.

 

[easy rider]

I think you are wrong. Virginia was a lot like Texas in their gun laws recently. Places like California for example enacted incremental laws over years of time. People get used to small changes over long periods of time. Big changes all at once is too much for many, if not most.

Did those at Waco commit suicide? There certainly are questions to whether they did or not. It's easy to claim a small faction are lunatics, a little bit harder to claim a good portion of a state are lunatics. The media, for the most part, painted the Branch Davidians as such. As far as I'm aware of, there wasn't a lot of law enforcement in Texas that was stating their disapproval of trying to disarm them either.

Although I will agree that many will conform, I think the more skirmishes against an unjust law will embolden others into action. Also I believe those that feel that they will be defeated in their efforts, are already defeated.

 

[gll]

Done had that long Xmas mornin discussion about that very thing.

Didnt go well ( for the subject dujor)



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[Texasgrillchef]

I think you are wrong. Virginia was a lot like Texas in their gun laws recently. Places like California for example enacted incremental laws over years of time. People get used to small changes over long periods of time. Big changes all at once is too much for many, if not most.

Did those at Waco commit suicide? There certainly are questions to whether they did or not. It's easy to claim a small faction are lunatics, a little bit harder to claim a good portion of a state are lunatics. The media, for the most part, painted the Branch Davidians as such. As far as I'm aware of, there wasn't a lot of law enforcement in Texas that was stating their disapproval of trying to disarm them either.

Although I will agree that many will conform, I think the more skirmishes against an unjust law will embolden others into action. Also I believe those that feel that they will be defeated in their efforts, are already defeated.

I know some law enforcement from Texas who are now retired that were there. Simply said law enforcement made some really big mistakes simply out of ego and there embarrassment for it lasting over 60 days. Suffice it to say there were many law enforcement that dissented on the final action that was taken.

Either way, it was a big embarrassment to law enforcement in the outcome of Waco, their objective was never reached. They were seen as being inept. Which I believe they were.

The ATF were used as an excuse to raid the compound for the Alterior motive was to take down Koresh for other issues that they couldn’t get a warrant. So they used a few illegal guns as the reason.

Don’t get me wrong I am in no way justifying the Branch Davidians actions, but I am not justifying law enforcements actions either.

That being said, I doubt Virginia’s State police have the skill, knowledge or training to handle the same situation as what happened in Waco. They would look a lot worse had the been in charge.

Per my post a few posts bad. I really hope I am wrong in favor of the 2A. I don’t want to be right.

you do make a good point where ca, ny, nj, and mass have implemented laws slowly as to get people complacent and accepting of more gun control, where as Virginia is going for the whole hog, lock stock and barrel, in for a penny in for the full pound. no wading into the pool, they are going for the high dive!

 

[oldag]

Can't put enough "likes" on that one.

 

[oldag]

Must be true, you posted it verbatim in 3 threads.

And I thought I was somehow reading the same thread over and over again.

 

[motorcarman]

you do make a good point where ca, ny, nj, and mass have implemented laws slowly as to get people complacent and accepting of more gun control, where as Virginia is going for the whole hog, lock stock and barrel, in for a penny in for the full pound. no wading into the pool, they are going for the high dive!

They are just playing 'catch-up'