Guns International

Visited the Holy Shrine...aka The Alamo yesterday.

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  • NeckBeard

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    Part of my "right of passage" in becoming a Texan I guess.

    One of the most unique battlegrounds ive ever visited.

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    Hurley's Gold
     

    NeckBeard

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    Another place i visited just before the 20th anniversary was the Branch Davidian grounds outside Waco. Some would call this a battleground as well.

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    jordanmills

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    I dont know if its a wildly sensitive issue for Texans or they just want to move on past it, but i never hardly hear it discussed.

    It's just not widely discussed. Pretty much everyone agrees that while the cultists were almost certainly doing illegal things that called for intervention of law enforcement, nothing warrants on the spot mass execution without due process and the ATF really REALLY screwed things up.
     

    breakingcontact

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    It's just not widely discussed. Pretty much everyone agrees that while the cultists were almost certainly doing illegal things that called for intervention of law enforcement, nothing warrants on the spot mass execution without due process and the ATF really REALLY screwed things up.

    That makes since i guess. Not much to discuss. From what ive read on it they could have grabbed Koresh by himself when he went to town whenever they wanted but they wanted to make a big scene and make a point.
     

    jordanmills

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    That makes since i guess. Not much to discuss. From what ive read on it they could have grabbed Koresh by himself when he went to town whenever they wanted but they wanted to make a big scene and make a point.

    That's pretty much it. At the cost of dozens of likely innocent lives, including many children.
     

    benenglish

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    ... i never hardly hear it discussed.
    It was discussed at the time, in my home. I grew up around evangelicals and fundamentalists. My grandfather was a traveling revivalist, tent included. My family was disappointed that I never fulfilled my potential in that arena.

    My mom knew what thought processes were in play inside the compound. Too bad the HRT didn't. She repeatedly said "What the hell did the FBI do that for? That'll just convince the people inside even more that the end times have arrived." Over and over, we'd both look at each other and say something like "Holy Shit! How stupid was that?" because we knew in our hearts, automatically, how apocalyptic religious fervor reacts when pushed by authority.

    As has been publicly documented many times since (including most damningly by the primary FBI negotiator on site whose credibility with the folks inside was deliberately, repeatedly sabotaged by the HRT), the federals involved had almost no clue. The few who did were not allowed to make the big decisions.

    I hear they've learned a little more about such things since then. God, I hope so.
     

    Kennydale

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    When Hil runs for POTUS in 2016 (she will because the Dems need her) remember the Branch Davidians, Benghazi the lies she told to Congress. Hilary has a way of making people disappear for good.
     

    shortround

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    Every thing about Ruby Ridge and Waco was just wrong. Local Governments surrendered their 9th & 10th Amendment rights to .Gov.
     

    NeckBeard

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    more pics. a groundskeeper let me into the church thats on the site now. They believe some wacky stuff, but it was nonetheless interesting...

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    Swimming pool:

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    Where the tower was:

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    Remnants of the bus:

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    Entrance to underground shelter:

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    Shelter collapsed a few years back:

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    Every thing about Ruby Ridge and Waco was just wrong. Local Governments surrendered their 9th & 10th Amendment rights to .Gov.

    The states have as well. This is why secession will never happen. Every state including Texas relies on the govt. tit.
     

    karlac

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    It's just not widely discussed. Pretty much everyone agrees that while the cultists were almost certainly doing illegal things that called for intervention of law enforcement, nothing warrants on the spot mass execution without due process and the ATF really REALLY screwed things up.

    While that wasn't necessarily the beginning of the end, it was damned sure upfront in the scheme of things. How soon they forget.
     

    atticus finch

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    It's very humbling to walk the grounds and consider what happened there. I'm glad a lot of it has been preserved instead of being lost to history.

    I bet it is humbling to be there, supposedly there's still bullet marks in the front of that chapel. I was there once when I was a little kid but the significance of the place I didn't understand at the time. I really want to go back and take another look at the place now that I understand what it was about.
     

    AKM

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    I watched out a documentary about ruby ridge a while back out of boredom and it showed "police" firing bursts into the compound before it was set on fire, but they claim no shots were fired by police. Bodies were found riddles with bullet holes though.....go figure
     

    M. Sage

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    I love the Alamo. Every visit is a good visit for me.

    I've been so San Jacinto once. It's a place you need to go. That battle wasn't exactly huge in terms of fighting, but it was the site of some serious reprisals by the Texians for abuses and atrocities suffered at the Centralists' hands.

    I watched out a documentary about ruby ridge a while back out of boredom and it showed "police" firing bursts into the compound before it was set on fire, but they claim no shots were fired by police. Bodies were found riddles with bullet holes though.....go figure

    You mean Waco. Ruby Ridge is where an HRT sniper (who was also present at Waco) named Lon Horiuchi (who, by the way found a job at H. S. Precision stocks later on and had a testimonial briefly used in their advertising literature) killed an unarmed woman who was holding a child. HRT snipers at Ruby Ridge were given so-called rules of engagement that instructed them to fire on any armed male, even though those men weren't going to be immediate threats.

    Pretty sure that means the FBI HRT gave its snipers instructions to commit murder...

    And Randy Weaver (whose wife was the woman killed) was later acquitted of the charges that brought the FBI out in the first place.
     

    benenglish

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    And Randy Weaver (whose wife was the woman killed) was later acquitted of the charges that brought the FBI out in the first place.
    From Wikipedia:
    Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident, a total of ten counts including the original firearms charges and murder. Attorney Gerry Spence handled Weaver's defense, and argued successfully that Weaver's actions were justifiable as self-defense. The judge dismissed two counts after hearing prosecution witness testimony. The jury acquitted Weaver of all remaining charges except two, one of which the judge set aside. Weaver was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, for which Weaver was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all criminal charges.

    In August 1995, the US government avoided trial on a civil lawsuit filed by the Weavers, by awarding the three surviving daughters $1,000,000 each, and Randy Weaver $100,000 over the deaths of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. The attorney for Kevin Harris pressed Harris' civil suit for damages, although federal officials vowed they would never pay someone who had killed a U.S. Marshal (Harris had been acquitted by a jury trial on grounds of self-defense). In September 2000 after persistent appeals, Harris was awarded a $380,000 settlement from the government.

    To my mind, those amounts of money do not come close to compensating him for the crimes committed against him and his.
     
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