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  • hullhullhull

    Active Member
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    Jun 11, 2022
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    El Paso
    Absolutely love mine. People saying this companies glass vs this ones is better must have much better eyesight than me.
    You are correct, people say it, but they can’t back up their emotional opinion with objective data or an objective way to evaluate different glass in a meaningful manner. Additionally, they get really hostile and defensive when you bring this up.
     

    fishermen0105

    Member
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    May 25, 2012
    53
    11
    Belton
    You are correct, people say it, but they can’t back up their emotional opinion with objective data or an objective way to evaluate different glass in a meaningful manner. Additionally, they get really hostile and defensive when you bring this up.
    I don’t care about the glass as much as I do about reliability. Too many people seem to know way too much about the vip warranty. I had a couple razor LHT scopes and they seemed ok but I did have to use the warranty.
     

    deemus

    my mama says I'm special
    Lifetime Member
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    30   0   0
    Feb 1, 2010
    15,588
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    DFW
    You are correct, people say it, but they can’t back up their emotional opinion with objective data or an objective way to evaluate different glass in a meaningful manner. Additionally, they get really hostile and defensive when you bring this up.


    Is there an objective way to judge glass? I don't think so. If you know of an objective way to judge clarity please educate us.

    For me the glass is very clear where both the subject being looked at and also the reticle is extremely clear. Some scopes (even expensive ones) are not always clear, even after adjustment on the scope. The same manufacturer can have different levels of clear on different scopes. You have to look through a few different scopes of the same general type to find the one that you feel has the best clarity. Its a comparitive / relative thing.

    I think you are asking for an impossibility. Clear is subjective, and acceptability is based on what makes the user happy. I am not a brand whore. Names mean very little to me. The vision offered by a scope is paramount to me. After having bought a couple dozen different scopes over the years, the view is everything. The brand carries some weight, but I am not brand loyal. Everyone's eyes are different. Its not like you can use a pressure device to test steel strength. Eyesight varies by person.

    Thats why I went to Cabelas and looked at 8 or 9 different scopes when I needed a long range scope. I did not look at Nightforce, Zeiss or Swarovski due to price. I would not be able to afford either. I know how to adjust a scope for a clear view. But even after that adjustment, some glass was just "clearer" than others. I was kind of shocked that the Cabaelas Covenant 7 scopes I looked through had nearly the same clarity as Vortex and the Nikon Black1000. But I bought the Nikon at appx $1K. For the long range scopes I looked at, Nikon and Vortex had pretty much equal clarity. But I preferred the reticle on the Nikon so I bought it. They were within $100 of each other in price. So 7 or 8 other scopes that were fairly comprable in price and application had sub-par clarity to those two.

    However, I did go back and buy the Covenant 7 for a different gun at $350. And after using both I am still surprised at how close they are in clarity. The Nikon Black1000 has a bit better zoom, but its also a slightly bigger scope.
     
    Last edited:

    hullhullhull

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 11, 2022
    362
    46
    El Paso
    Is there an objective way to judge glass? I don't think so. If you know of an objective way to judge clarity please educate us.

    For me the glass is very clear where both the subject being looked at and also the reticle is extremely clear. Some scopes (even expensive ones) are not always clear, even after adjustment on the scope. The same manufacturer can have different levels of clear on different scopes. You have to look through a few different scopes of the same general type to find the one that you feel has the best clarity. Its a comparitive / relative thing.

    I think you are asking for an impossibility. Clear is subjective, and acceptability is based on what makes the user happy. I am not a brand whore. Names mean very little to me. The vision offered by a scope is paramount to me. After having bought a couple dozen different scopes over the years, the view is everything. The brand carries some weight, but I am not brand loyal. Everyone's eyes are different. Its not like you can use a pressure device to test steel strength. Eyesight varies by person.

    Thats why I went to Cabelas and looked at 8 or 9 different scopes when I needed a long range scope. I did not look at Nightforce, Zeiss or Swarovski due to price. I would not be able to afford either. I know how to adjust a scope for a clear view. But even after that adjustment, some glass was just "clearer" than others. I was kind of shocked that the Cabaelas Covenant 7 scopes I looked through had nearly the same clarity as Vortex and the Nikon Black1000. But I bought the Nikon at appx $1K. For the long range scopes I looked at, Nikon and Vortex had pretty much equal clarity. But I preferred the reticle on the Nikon so I bought it. They were within $100 of each other in price. So 7 or 8 other scopes that were fairly comprable in price and application had sub-par clarity to those two.

    However, I did go back and buy the Covenant 7 for a different gun at $350. And after using both I am still surprised at how close they are in clarity. The Nikon Black1000 has a bit better zoom, but its also a slightly bigger scope.
    I was the guy asking if there were objective standards, not the guy looking down on people for having subjective standards. Also, you made my point for me.
     

    deemus

    my mama says I'm special
    Lifetime Member
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    30   0   0
    Feb 1, 2010
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    DFW
    You’re welcome. That wasn’t what I got out of your post at all.
     

    popper

    TGT Addict
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    Apr 23, 2013
    2,999
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    Yes there are tests and you can't afford them. Shott (german - 1840s) developed the best glass and Ziess made best lenses. Eventually Japan got into making good glass, aided by Ziess Co. Eventually off-shoring to Phillapines. China just tries to copy the cheap stuff, as normal.
     

    fishermen0105

    Member
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    0   0   0
    May 25, 2012
    53
    11
    Belton
    For those that care John Barsness wrote an optics book a few years ago and he created a brightness test. So there is a way to objectively measure light gathering in a scope.

    Modern scopes have such good glass now that’s its one of the least important factors to me when buying a scope. I’ll take reliability and return to zero over supposed glass quality.
     

    CavCop

    CAVCOP on Rumble
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 2, 2016
    672
    76
    Central TX
    So far I am impressed by the Vortex Razor HD II. Picked one up last week as I could not find a reasonably priced Mk 4 Leupold as they stopped making them. Looked at the Mk5 from Leupold, NX8 from Night Force, and Razor Gen III from Vortex. Decided the 3-18x50 was the best for my needs. The 34mm main tube and 50mm obj I like. The Vortex PST Viper scopes I have are good. The Leupold Mk’s I have are fixed 10x and 16x and out dated. Still have a few 1” main tubes from 30 years ago. About 15 years ago went to 30mm. Now I guess 34mm is the way. Not a fan of bigger than 50mm objectives, or 24x and higher magnification.

    Here is an unboxing video I did. Have some M

     

    PinnedandRecessed

    Allegedly
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Feb 11, 2019
    2,778
    96
    Hays County
    One of the major factors I look for in a potential scope is the generosity of the eye box at higher magnifications. Shooting from a bench where repeatability is easy is one thing. Being able to use your scope while in less than ideal positions (OOC thread, here ya go) is another.

    Also, I get a kick out of "this glass vs that glass" arguments. They're all fine and good but advances in tech have spoiled us all. Cheapies now are better than mid to high tier glass was a decade ago. Before anyone gets butthurt, I'll admit, I've never paid more than $1K for a scope so yes, if you paid $2-3K for glass, you are better than me.
     

    CavCop

    CAVCOP on Rumble
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 2, 2016
    672
    76
    Central TX
    One of the major factors I look for in a potential scope is the generosity of the eye box at higher magnifications. Shooting from a bench where repeatability is easy is one thing. Being able to use your scope while in less than ideal positions (OOC thread, here ya go) is another.

    Also, I get a kick out of "this glass vs that glass" arguments. They're all fine and good but advances in tech have spoiled us all. Cheapies now are better than mid to high tier glass was a decade ago. Before anyone gets butthurt, I'll admit, I've never paid more than $1K for a scope so yes, if you paid $2-3K for glass, you are better than me.

    The Razor seems to have a generous eye box, along with other thing.
     
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