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What are the laws for foster parents with guns?

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  • ag1052

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    Does anyone know Texas's laws for foster parents that have guns? Anyone here currently a foster parent?
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    txinvestigator

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    There are no separate laws, as far as I know, for foster parents in regards to firearms. The Department of Family and Protective Services can have RULES that they enforce administratively.

    Be aware of penal code 46.13.
     

    no2gates

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    Wife is a former CPS Investigator. A few years back guns had to be locked up and ammo locked up separately. She is not in the biz anymore, so it could have changed.
    A few years ago, when my wife and I were looking into fostering, we were told that they needed to be locked up and unloaded, with ammo locked in a separate locking container/safe. All medicines have to be locked up too.
     

    txinvestigator

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    A few years ago, when my wife and I were looking into fostering, we were told that they needed to be locked up and unloaded, with ammo locked in a separate locking container/safe. All medicines have to be locked up too.

    Can you show me those rules, or just reference where they are located? I searched earlier, and found no such rules. I did find sites indicating Texas had no specific requirements.
     

    no2gates

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    Can you show me those rules, or just reference where they are located? I searched earlier, and found no such rules. I did find sites indicating Texas had no specific requirements.

    I just looked it up and it looks like in 2011 they did create a law for foster parents: Texas Legislature Online - 82(R) History for HB 2560 Which allows guns in cars with foster children present.

    http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=40&pt=19&ch=747&rl=3505

    That was after we went to our foster parenting classes. It's possible that some agencies might just make up their own rules possibly because they are trying to impart their beliefs on others?
     

    no2gates

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    §749.2961. Are weapons, firearms, explosive materials, and projectiles permitted in a foster home?

    (a) Generally, weapons, firearms, explosive materials, and projectiles (such as darts or arrows), are permitted, however, there are some specific restrictions:
    (1) If you allow weapons, firearms, explosive materials, projectiles, or toys that explode or shoot, you must develop and enforce a policy identifying specific precautions to ensure children do not have unsupervised access to them, including:

    (A) Locked storage for the weapons and the ammunition;
    (B) Locked storage must be made of strong, unbreakable material;
    (C) If the locked storage has a glass or another breakable front or enclosure, guns must be secured with a locked cable or chain placed through the trigger guards; and
    (D) Separate locked storage for the weapons and the ammunition. Ammunition may be stored with weapons in the same location, such as a gun cabinet, provided that access to both ammunition and weapons cannot be obtained by using the same key and/or combination;

    (2) You must determine that it is appropriate for a specific child to use the weapons, firearms, explosive materials, projectiles, or toys that explode or shoot; and
    (3) No child may use a weapon, firearm, explosive material, projectile, or toy that explodes or shoots, unless the child is directly supervised by a qualified adult.

    (b) Your policies must require foster parents/caregivers to notify you if there is a change in the type of or an addition to weapons, firearms, explosive materials, or projectiles that are on the property where the foster home is located.
    (c) Firearms which are inoperable and solely ornamental are exempt from the storage requirements in this rule.
     

    stdreb27

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    §749.2961. Are weapons, firearms, explosive materials, and projectiles permitted in a foster home?

    (a) Generally, weapons, firearms, explosive materials, and projectiles (such as darts or arrows), are permitted, however, there are some specific restrictions:
    (1) If you allow weapons, firearms, explosive materials, projectiles, or toys that explode or shoot, you must develop and enforce a policy identifying specific precautions to ensure children do not have unsupervised access to them, including:

    (A) Locked storage for the weapons and the ammunition;
    (B) Locked storage must be made of strong, unbreakable material;
    (C) If the locked storage has a glass or another breakable front or enclosure, guns must be secured with a locked cable or chain placed through the trigger guards; and
    (D) Separate locked storage for the weapons and the ammunition. Ammunition may be stored with weapons in the same location, such as a gun cabinet, provided that access to both ammunition and weapons cannot be obtained by using the same key and/or combination;

    (2) You must determine that it is appropriate for a specific child to use the weapons, firearms, explosive materials, projectiles, or toys that explode or shoot; and
    (3) No child may use a weapon, firearm, explosive material, projectile, or toy that explodes or shoots, unless the child is directly supervised by a qualified adult.

    (b) Your policies must require foster parents/caregivers to notify you if there is a change in the type of or an addition to weapons, firearms, explosive materials, or projectiles that are on the property where the foster home is located.
    (c) Firearms which are inoperable and solely ornamental are exempt from the storage requirements in this rule.

    Had a friend who was fostering this year. And they told him to comply with this.
     

    Booyah

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    My wife and I went through training with two different foster agencies last year and they both taught the restrictions mentioned above and enforced them by inspection. I did find some differences in interpretation in how the two agencies enforced the rule about the weapons and ammo being stored separately. I can confidently say that the difference arose from attitude each agency had about guns in general. The first agency we went to was a conservative, faith based, agency that provided an outstanding experience. They displayed no adverse attitude towards guns in any way. I asked questions about the separate storage of weapons and ammo...specifically I described my set up of having the ammo in a locked drawn of my night stand and, within that same locked drawn with the ammo, a locked gunsafe (Gunvault Mini) containing the guns. The first agency had no problem with that and said it met state requirements. Unfortunately that first agency decided to close their local office and we looked for another agency. The second agency, while recommended, was not faith based and the overall attitude was much less inviting. During the home inspection I showed them my setup as I described it before and the inspector's first reaction was to smirk, shake her head and mumble "I don't know what it is with you Texan's and your guns". She then told me that my setup was totally unacceptable and that the ammo or the guns would have to be stored in a completely different location to pass the inspection. This along with several other issues made us give up on the idea of fostering.
     

    txinvestigator

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    §749.2961. Are weapons, firearms, explosive materials, and projectiles permitted in a foster home?

    (a) Generally, weapons, firearms, explosive materials, and projectiles (such as darts or arrows), are permitted, however, there are some specific restrictions:
    (1) If you allow weapons, firearms, explosive materials, projectiles, or toys that explode or shoot, you must develop and enforce a policy identifying specific precautions to ensure children do not have unsupervised access to them, including:

    (A) Locked storage for the weapons and the ammunition;
    (B) Locked storage must be made of strong, unbreakable material;
    (C) If the locked storage has a glass or another breakable front or enclosure, guns must be secured with a locked cable or chain placed through the trigger guards; and
    (D) Separate locked storage for the weapons and the ammunition. Ammunition may be stored with weapons in the same location, such as a gun cabinet, provided that access to both ammunition and weapons cannot be obtained by using the same key and/or combination;

    (2) You must determine that it is appropriate for a specific child to use the weapons, firearms, explosive materials, projectiles, or toys that explode or shoot; and
    (3) No child may use a weapon, firearm, explosive material, projectile, or toy that explodes or shoots, unless the child is directly supervised by a qualified adult.

    (b) Your policies must require foster parents/caregivers to notify you if there is a change in the type of or an addition to weapons, firearms, explosive materials, or projectiles that are on the property where the foster home is located.
    (c) Firearms which are inoperable and solely ornamental are exempt from the storage requirements in this rule.


    There are over a dozen codes in Texas, perhaps you could reference the code from which you pulled that. It is telling someone, cannot tell who without more context, that they must develop policies. It does not look like those are policies or laws enforced on foster parents.

    Again, context is needed.
     

    txinvestigator

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    My wife and I went through training with two different foster agencies last year and they both taught the restrictions mentioned above and enforced them by inspection. I did find some differences in interpretation in how the two agencies enforced the rule about the weapons and ammo being stored separately. I can confidently say that the difference arose from attitude each agency had about guns in general. The first agency we went to was a conservative, faith based, agency that provided an outstanding experience. They displayed no adverse attitude towards guns in any way. I asked questions about the separate storage of weapons and ammo...specifically I described my set up of having the ammo in a locked drawn of my night stand and, within that same locked drawn with the ammo, a locked gunsafe (Gunvault Mini) containing the guns. The first agency had no problem with that and said it met state requirements. Unfortunately that first agency decided to close their local office and we looked for another agency. The second agency, while recommended, was not faith based and the overall attitude was much less inviting. During the home inspection I showed them my setup as I described it before and the inspector's first reaction was to smirk, shake her head and mumble "I don't know what it is with you Texan's and your guns". She then told me that my setup was totally unacceptable and that the ammo or the guns would have to be stored in a completely different location to pass the inspection. This along with several other issues made us give up on the idea of fostering.


    I don't see that in the law. And by her statement she was enforcing her personal belief, not law.
     

    no2gates

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    There are over a dozen codes in Texas, perhaps you could reference the code from which you pulled that. It is telling someone, cannot tell who without more context, that they must develop policies. It does not look like those are policies or laws enforced on foster parents.

    Again, context is needed.

    Per DFPS regulations (not a law per se), they have the following rules for children in foster care:

    http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=N&p_rloc=127224&p_tloc=&p_ploc=1&pg=4&p_tac=&ti=40&pt=19&ch=749&rl=2931
     

    Y2bad4U

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    The law is the same for all. There is not special law for foster parents. There are regulations and policies that the departments have. If you violate those then you can lose your foster status. Unfortunately these employees tend to mix their personal beliefs with their job and therefore one can tell you that your "plan" is good and another says no.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Per DFPS regulations (not a law per se), they have the following rules for children in foster care:

    http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=N&p_rloc=127224&p_tloc=&p_ploc=1&pg=4&p_tac=&ti=40&pt=19&ch=749&rl=2931


    That is a dead link. From what code was that quote, that'll make it easy to look up. Thanks
     

    Booyah

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    There are over a dozen codes in Texas, perhaps you could reference the code from which you pulled that. It is telling someone, cannot tell who without more context, that they must develop policies. It does not look like those are policies or laws enforced on foster parents.

    Again, context is needed.

    Texas Administrative code, Title 40, Part 19, Chapter 749, Subchapter O, Division 3 is where he got that from. Here is a link:

    Texas Administrative Code

    So the code they are enforcing is legit but as some have said (and as I experienced) the interpretation and enforcement of those codes is often done at the whim of someone with an agenda. It is unfortunate because, with so many children out there that need homes, families like mine who are willing to help, are driven out of the system.
     

    Booyah

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    Thank you!

    "MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR CHILD-PLACING AGENCIES"

    The rule applies to agencies who place children

    True...but they clarify in the next chapter:

    Texas Administrative Code Chapter 750, Subchapter N, "MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR INDEPENDENT FOSTER HOMES"

    You must comply with Subchapter O of Chapter 749 of this title (relating to Foster Homes: Health and Safety Requirements, Environment, Space and Equipment), with the exception of §749.2965 of this title (relating to How must I determine whether weapons, firearms, explosive materials, or projectiles are present in a foster home?).

    So §749.2961 does apply to the foster home.
     
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