When asked why you need hi cap mags & AWs

[henryhenze]

In a large nutshell this is why I started this thread:
The average American voter knows one tiddlywink more than absolutely nothing about firearms or the constitution. To them a gun is a gun and the constitution is a "living document" or some irrelevant old piece of paper. So when they tune in to the Communist News Network and listen to some ass-clown spraying BS at the camera out of the flapping hole above their chin about how the AR-15 was designed for the battlefield they go along with it. The they see a clip of a news conference with Sen. Feinstein going on about how these weapons have only ONE purpose "to kill large numbers of people as quickly as possible". At this point Jo Schmo usually says to himself "Well if that's all they are good for nobody needs to do that! We gotta get these terrible things off the streets!"

So between ignorance, propaganda, and stupidity they aren't persuaded very much when a gun owner tells them something like "Well I might need it some day." Then they continue on their merry way down to the polls to re-elect Representative Gun Ban. I've seen almost NO convincing arguments against the bans presented by anybody in the media or interviewed by them on any network or newspaper.
Sometimes if you want something done right you got to do it yourself. Nobody is going to do this for us except us.

 

[benenglish]

In a large nutshell this is why I started this thread:

You make a valid point that preaching to the choir is a waste of time.

Two thoughts.

First, it's not always a waste of time. There are a number of gun owners (see: "Fudds") who would happily throw black rifle owners under the bus as long as they think no one is ever going to bother them with their slug gun for deer season. Those guys need to hear the "It's a right, not a need, and if you help people take away our rights they're going to eventually come after the shotgun that you think you merely need. This is your fight, too."

Second, for the people with so little understanding that the whole notion of a *right* to keep and bear bounces off them like grease off teflon, you make a valid point. Many of the strong, sufficient-to-end-all-debate statements we make (many of which are in this thread) are simply meaningless to them. Those swing voters in the middle need to appreciate that black rifles are the new normal. Just like bolt-action rifles were villified in the press over 100 years ago with rhetoric very similar to what we hear today, autoloaders with plastic furniture will be the rifles that all the Fudds carry into the woods in 50 or 100 years...if we can last that long.

To get over the current-day hump of resistance, we need to put those black guns on display as normal. Hunt with them and put your hunting pictures on all your social media. Shoot little groups with them and do the same. Everyone should teach their kids on a good airgun, right? Well, use something like this: http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/Creedmoor_National_Match_Air_Rifle.html . Even if you feel it's a bit disingenuous, when the subject of a proper home defense firearm comes up, put in a vote for a pistol-caliber carbine like this: Rifle, Mk9, 9mm, 16" CM, M4, FSB .

Non-gun folks will assume they're getting accurate information from anti-gun sources (and thus be manipulated) unless they have some scrap of personal knowledge that contradicts what they've been told and gives them some sort of vague feeling that something's wrong. When Dianne Feinstein holds up an AR-pattern rifle and says it's only for killing, it would be a good thing if Mr. Knows-Nothing had at least a glimmer of a thought along the lines of "Hey, wait a minute. Doesn't my neighbor's kid in 4H shoot a rifle that looks just like that? Doesn't that guy down the block who goes deer hunting use a rifle that looks just like that?"

WE know the underlying principles. Most non-gun-owners (and far too many gun owners) are so far from grokking those principles that they need some familiarity with the subject to stop being afraid. Perhaps the single best bit of advice I can come up with is that we all need to find someone who doesn't own guns and never thinks about them and take that person to the range for a few hours of fun. After that, when a politician tells them that guns are evil they will have this nagging suspicion, deep down in their gut, that there's more to the story. That would be a good thing.

I liken it to a child (or even an adult) who's terribly afraid of dogs. Someone needs to hand them a puppy to hold for a while.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

My answer to the question, "Why do you need an AR15 with 30 round magazines".

Depending on who's asking it:


1. Because I WANT ONE that's why

1. Why do you feel the "need" to babysit me and tell me what guns I "need" and don't "need"?

1. Cars are a necessity, why does one need a ferrari? Cause that's the car they choose. Guns are a necessity, why does one need an AR15? Cause that's the gun they choose.

1. Because F*CK YOU that's why.

 

[steve-o]

My answer to the question, "Why do you need an AR15 with 30 round magazines".

Depending on who's asking it:


1. Because I WANT ONE that's why

1. Why do you feel the "need" to babysit me and tell me what guns I "need" and don't "need"?

1. Cars are a necessity, why does one need a ferrari? Cause that's the car they choose. Guns are a necessity, why does one need an AR15? Cause that's the gun they choose.

1. Because F*CK YOU that's why.

the best reason

 

[benenglish]

You guys ever heard the one about flies, vinegar, and honey?

Being merely in the right doesn't win converts. Being palatably, invitingly, helpfully, educationally in the right wins converts. Teaching people doesn't mean telling them the truth; it means helping them find it for themselves.

I agree with nearly everything that's been posted in this thread but I sure think we could use some improved public relations skills.

 

[jacqueeagonsr]

From the Dust Bin of History

“The society of the late twentieth century America is perhaps the first in human history where most grown men do not routinely bear arms on their persons and boys are not regularly raised from childhood to learn skill in the use of some kind of weapon, either for community or personal defense – club or spear, broadsword or long bow, rifle or Bowie knife.
It also happens to be one of the rudest and crudest societies in history, having jubilantly swept most of the etiquette of speech, table, dress, hospitality, fairness, deference to authority and the relations of male and female and child and elder under the fraying and filthy carpet of politically convenient illusions.
With little fear of physical reprisal Americans can be as loud, gross, disrespectful, pushy, and negligent as they please. If more people carried rapiers at their belts, or revolvers on their hips, it is a fair bet you would be able to go to a movie and enjoy the dialogue from the screen without having to endure the small talk, family gossip and assorted bodily noises that many theater audiences these days regularly emit. Today, discourtesy is commonplace precisely because there is no price to pay for it.”
- - Samuel T. Francis, Chronicles Magazine

In other words, those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms need no explaination. For those who don't, no amount of explaination will suffice.

 

[benenglish]

...those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms need no explaination. For those who don't, no amount of explaination will suffice.

I agree but I believe your statement sets up a false dichotomy. I don't accept that there's no one out there who stands between those two extremes. At minimum, there new people being born every day who have yet to form opinions and they need us to educate them so they can see the light as adults. I'm still willing to talk to those people.

 

[ROGER4314]

I'm confused. Do people actually come up and challenge you about your Second Amendment rights? No one does that to me....ever! Perhaps it's my pleasant disposition or warm and friendly manner but folks just don't bring that up around me.

Do you walk around looking for Second Amendment dialog? For instance to meet someone new so you ask them....."How do you feel about my gun ownership?"

Do they come up to you, a total stranger, on the street and launch into an anti gun monologue?

If that were to happen, the correct answer for me would be "Go f yourself!"

Flash

 

[benenglish]

Do people actually come up and challenge you about your Second Amendment rights?

It has happened to me on several occasions. Visitors in my home have inquired about the award plaques on the wall. People at work have seen a gun magazine on my desk and started the conversation. I got jumped in the waiting room of a hospital once after I got off my cell phone talking to a gunsmith about some work; a lady in the waiting room who overheard me read me the riot act about the evils of firearms.

It happens. If it happens in anything remotely resembling a cordial inquiry, I try to have some cordial response at the ready.

As for the times when total strangers have launched into anti-gun monologues (lessee, there was that lady in the waiting room, a hotel employee who was in my room as I put on my holster while getting dressed in the morning who didn't say anything much but let the manager know who later lit into me, and I think there have been one or two others that I can't recall at the moment), even then a "Go f yourself!" doesn't really seem productive. I prefer to fall back on a non-verbal version of "Tsk, tsk, you poor, ignorant dear" and then disengage.

But, hey, that's just me.

 

[M. Sage]

I'm confused. Do people actually come up and challenge you about your Second Amendment rights? No one does that to me....ever! Perhaps it's my pleasant disposition or warm and friendly manner but folks just don't bring that up around me.

Do you walk around looking for Second Amendment dialog? For instance to meet someone new so you ask them....."How do you feel about my gun ownership?"

Do they come up to you, a total stranger, on the street and launch into an anti gun monologue?

If that were to happen, the correct answer for me would be "Go f yourself!"

Flash

I've only had it once. Someone my ex knew was at the house and asked why my guns weren't locked up, when I said "because locked guns are useless", wound up opening her eyes a little.

 

[M. Sage]

It has happened to me on several occasions. Visitors in my home have inquired about the award plaques on the wall. People at work have seen a gun magazine on my desk and started the conversation. I got jumped in the waiting room of a hospital once after I got off my cell phone talking to a gunsmith about some work; a lady in the waiting room who overheard me read me the riot act about the evils of firearms.

It happens. If it happens in anything remotely resembling a cordial inquiry, I try to have some cordial response at the ready.

As for the times when total strangers have launched into anti-gun monologues (lessee, there was that lady in the waiting room, a hotel employee who was in my room as I put on my holster while getting dressed in the morning who didn't say anything much but let the manager know who later lit into me, and I think there have been one or two others that I can't recall at the moment), even then a "Go f yourself!" doesn't really seem productive. I prefer to fall back on a non-verbal version of "Tsk, tsk, you poor, ignorant dear" and then disengage.

But, hey, that's just me.

I've never had someone lay into me over this stuff...

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

I'm confused. Do people actually come up and challenge you about your Second Amendment rights? No one does that to me....ever! Perhaps it's my pleasant disposition or warm and friendly manner but folks just don't bring that up around me.

Do you walk around looking for Second Amendment dialog? For instance to meet someone new so you ask them....."How do you feel about my gun ownership?"

Do they come up to you, a total stranger, on the street and launch into an anti gun monologue?

If that were to happen, the correct answer for me would be "Go f yourself!"

Flash

Not in person so much but they sure do blast the internet, TV shows, Sporting events, pretty much any way they cna get their message out to the public, they do it. The people know talking about it amongst each other will likely lead to an argument. But at this point it is pretty much common knowledge that everyone has taken a stance on it. Some informed, some less informed. I'm seeing a slow trend in people who thought they were anti gun, starting to realize they've been indoctrinated into literal Communist thinking by people like the Brady Campaign "to Prevent Gun Violence".

The thing is it isn't public arguing like you'd see back in the day. Or so much on TV. But make a stop by the Brady Campaign's FB page, read some of the nonsense they spew knowing people will believe them, they will block and ban you the minute you try to comment on it and it doesn't fit their narrative. They only allow for pro gun control discussions. But they are publicly displaying lies. BIG lies. Which amounts to manipulation of general public opinion on issues and people start walking around completely misinformed, as a result of nothing more than pure emotional appeal and other such rhetorical fallacies from the anti gunners. It's exactly how Communists do things. Propaganda. And they try as hard as they can to silence those who disrupt their propaganda.

Not to mention in the last few months I've heard everything from, "Let's behead Wayne LaPierre", to "Let's shoot NRA Members", all said by pretty "respectable" members of the general public.

I know there have been gun control bouts in the past, but I've done a little research and can't say I have ever heard of anything like this in America, not on this vasst of a scale, since the 1770's. I could be wrong but when the POTUS is running all over trying to get people to pass legislation through Congress, then when it fails he goes STRAIGHT to the UN, I'd say something not so good is in the works. I hope I am wrong though.

I've had a few in person disagreements also.

 

[ROGER4314]

If your response "Go F yourself" isn't effective, perhaps your presentation of the remark is at fault. It should be spoken with enough conviction and clarity that the receiver gets a sense of impending doom.

I don't try to please everyone nor do I attempt to get everyone to like me. From experience, I know that some folks will hate my guts regardless of what I do. Should someone come out with that Second Amendment bashing tripe, I'd figure "Yup, here's another one to add to the 'asshole' list!"

Flash

 

[zentanker]

I usually say something along the lines of "Fortunately, one of the great things about a RIGHT is that we don't have to prove a "need" to exercise them. It's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. I don't have to explain it to you, or anyone else, and I don't care to try. Why does anyone need a car that can go over 85MPH? Why do you need to wear such ugly shirts and shoes? Why do you need a swimming pool? More children die in pools than die from AWs or high cap magazines? Goodbye."

 

[Chouse34]

When asked why you need hi cap mags & AWs

A left wing relative of mine asked me this a few weeks ago and I happen to know he just bought a house that he was incredibly proud of. I think my response was something to the effect of "why do you need so many rooms to house you and your wife?" Of course since this metaphor made sense and he is a liberal he went into a fit of rage and then spontaneously combusted.

 

[zentanker]

A left wing relative of mine asked me this a few weeks ago and I happen to know he just bought a house that he was incredibly proud of. I think my response was something to the effect of "why do you need so many rooms to house you and your wife?" Of course since this metaphor made sense and he is a liberal he went into a fit of rage and then spontaneously combusted.

LOL well done. I'm sorry that you appear to be the great nephew of Dick Blum and Dianne Feinstein though...

 

[Chouse34]

When asked why you need hi cap mags & AWs

LOL well done. I'm sorry that you appear to be the great nephew of Dick Blum and Dianne Feinstein though...

Haha. To say the apple fell far from the tree is a drastic understatement.

 

[zentanker]

Haha. To say the apple fell far from the tree is a drastic understatement.

Well good for you. I'm glad you either through chance or choice have fallen far from the ignorance tree.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

I usually say something along the lines of "Fortunately, one of the great things about a RIGHT is that we don't have to prove a "need" to exercise them. It's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. I don't have to explain it to you, or anyone else, and I don't care to try. Why does anyone need a car that can go over 85MPH? Why do you need to wear such ugly shirts and shoes? Why do you need a swimming pool? More children die in pools than die from AWs or high cap magazines? Goodbye."

One of my new favorites to the phrase, "Nobody needs an AR15 and a 30 round magazine", "Well, nobody needs a whiny little bitch either but here you are!".

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Of course since this metaphor made sense and he is a liberal he went into a fit of rage and then spontaneously combusted.

Shoulda sprayed him down with a water hose and gave him a box of Kleenex.