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Where can I find some NATO Ball Ammo?

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  • Bullseye Shooter

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    Apr 28, 2008
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    From a Yahoo search:
    The Cartridge, 9mm, Ball, M882 is approved for service use with the M9, M10, and M11 pistols, both for training and for combat. The ammunition complies with NATO STANAG 4090 test requirements.
    The M882 ball 9mm cartridge consists of a brass case, a copper alloy jacketed lead core bullet, a two-piece boxer-type primer, and a double-base propellant. The M882 has a plain bullet tip.
     

    hk boy

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    I went to Academy Sports last Saturday
    bought 4 boxes of Winchester 9mm NATO ball ammo
    box states for law enforcement use only
    and that pressures are higher than normal 9mm ammo
    does anybody know what's up with that??
     

    hk boy

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    I just found this on another site:

    I don't have any way to measure pressure but few months ago I chronographed some (15 rounds) NATO ammo given to me by a friend in the military.

    From my Beretta 92FS I got following measurement along with some other commercial loads measured on the same day for comparison:

    NATO 124gr FMJ - 1,180 fps avg.
    Remington 115gr JHP +P - 1,260 fps avg.
    Corbon 115gr JHP +P+ - 1,290 fps avg.
    UMC 115gr FMJ - 1,140 fps avg.
    Winchester 115gr JHP Silver Tip - 1,170 fps avg.
    Geco BAT 86gr (?) - 1,430 fps avg.

    I was suprised by the low velocity of the NATO ammo. I thought the ammo was loaded to pressure higher than +P so I expected to be around 1,250~1,280 fps. Also, the recoil didn't fee any different than UMC ammo and definitely less than Corbon.
     

    Texas1911

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    The NATO ammo is inline with the Corbon +P+ loading according to that chrono which means it has a relatively high pressure. Depending on the bullet tension and the burn rate of the powder it's possible to create a very high amount of pressure with the heavier bullet even compared to a standard +P loading. Pressure over time is what gives velocity, not just peak pressure.

    Personally I would avoid running NATO ammo in anything that isn't peak quality and in use by NATO militaries. HK, Glock, and Beretta 92s are used by NATO militaries. Stuff like Taurus, XDs, Kimbers, etc. aren't, and I personally would not take that risk.
     

    Tired Retired

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    Well, the 124 gr bullet is 8% heavier than the 115 gr bullet. You were measuring velocity, not the cup pressure in the chamber or energy of the fired round. You may also want to review the weight differences in your reloading manuals for your powder - you will see that you top out pressure-wise with less powder for the 124 than you do with the 115. An even better example of energy difference between lighter vs heavier bullets (and without getting into a debate over 9mm vs 45 cal), you get alot more energy from a .45 acp at 950 fps than you do with a 9mm at 1200 fps - the major math-factor is the weight, not velocity.
     

    Texas1911

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    Well, the 124 gr bullet is 8% heavier than the 115 gr bullet. You were measuring velocity, not the cup pressure in the chamber or energy of the fired round. You may also want to review the weight differences in your reloading manuals for your powder - you will see that you top out pressure-wise with less powder for the 124 than you do with the 115. An even better example of energy difference between lighter vs heavier bullets (and without getting into a debate over 9mm vs 45 cal), you get alot more energy from a .45 acp at 950 fps than you do with a 9mm at 1200 fps - the major math-factor is the weight, not velocity.

    Velocity is proportional to mass and pressure (force).

    Velocity is FAR FAR more vital to energy than mass. E = mass * velocity squared. That's why a 62 grain 5.56 NATO round carries far more power than a 230 grain .45 ACP.
     

    Tired Retired

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    Alan, thanks for waking me up on that one. I feel so....

    Alan is correct that the major factor of Kinetic Energy is velocity and I did screw up that explanation. I think I added too much info with too little background which only confused what I was trying to say in the first place. Did I say that right??? ... I should have not used the example of 9 vs 45 since I was trying to explain the effect of bullet weight on the pressure in the chamber and their case volumes are way too different..... Anyway, for a given powder (and set available volume in a case), the weight of the bullet plays a major factor in determining the amount of pressure in the chamber.

    The original question was why is a 124 gr NATO round considered by some a +P round when the velocity is not drastically higher than a 115 gr +P round? I have been told for years by the military that the M882 is a +P round. I have never chronographed it.

    A round's +P rating comes from the pressure in the chamber, not the final velocity of the round once it leave the barrel. Yea, there is generally a gain in velocity, but the "+P" means "plus pressure". A heavier bullet is slower to get started and will result in a higher pressure than a lighter bullet using the same amount of a given powder (and the same available case volume). This is why a cartridge using a lighter bullet can take more of a given powder before exceeding CUP pressure limits. You can see that in all the reloading manuals.

    Is the NATO round a true +P round? I don't know. I don't have all the manuals and specs available to me to check that. But I do recall something additional information back in the cobwebs of my senile old brain... I seem to remember that the M882 was designed at a high enough pressure to support operations of some blow-back type machine guns/pistols that were chambered in 9mm and used by various NATO militaries many years ago. Now my gray hair may be failing me when I make that statement over material I haven't read in several years. But that may be the reason why the NATO round is rumored to be +P pressure. Has anyone else ever read or held that?

    As a side note of my already-too-long post, I reload my 124gr FP with 5.8 gr of Unique and it runs about 1,200 fps. I have never gotten any "over pressure" indications with the Unique at that charge weight. Several books I have also cite a couple of faster powders which will push it about 1,250. All of these are above the velocity cited in hk boy's post. Go figure.
     

    Texas1911

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    Right, don't forget that with compressed rounds like alot of 9mm or using powders that are physically large (varget) you can develop pressure faster. This is especially true when you start to increase the grain weight of the bullet in already compressed loads, like 115 gr. to 124 gr. 9mm.
     
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