Hurley's Gold

Why people distrust law enforcement

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Texan2

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Nov 8, 2008
    7,932
    21
    South of San Antonio
    I think much of the discourse on here is the manner in which threads are started. It is as if certain members take joy in finding a cop in a bad situation.
    I agree with the above post that many of the issues are culturally driven, and not really police issues at all.

    I suppose we could skip the military hand downs and design vehicles from the ground up at a much higher cost, I guess that is an option. Using free stuff just seems to be a no brainer. Fact is though the VAST majority of agencies dont have military vehicles or equipment. My agency has M-16s that we obtained from the military. In the decade we have had them, we haven't violated anyone's rights with them. I would dare to guess that is the case with the overwhelming majority of military gear that is handed down to LE.

    I am not speaking to anyone particular, but it seems that in a world where technology and information are developing at an incredible speed and businesses and individuals benefit from these advances, many believe that LE agencies are not supposed to take advantage of technology that makes their job more effective or efficient. That technology may be in the form of information exchange or data sharing, or ballistic advances or tracking ability, it again boils down to not the use, but the ethical use.

    I agree that not every 3 letter agency needs a LE arm.
    Hurley's Gold
     

    TheDan

    deplorable malcontent scofflaw
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 11, 2008
    27,555
    96
    Austin - Rockdale
    Did I ever tell the story about how a Chevrolet dealer screwed a company I did part-time work for out of almost $7,000? Or the A/C tech that cheated my elderly neighbor out of $4500? Heck, I know a minister that cheated on his taxes.


    Darn mechanics, plumbers, A/C repair guys, religious leaders....... all crooks until they prove otherwise.


    See how stupid that sounds?
    Doesn't sound stupid at all. There's a reason why people always seek out personal referrals and online reviews for these professions. They are rife with people who prey on the lack of knowledge of their customers.
     

    wakal

    Just Some Guy
    BANNED!!!
    Rating - 88.9%
    8   1   0
    Mar 20, 2011
    1,538
    46
    Zephyr
    Yes, every profession has their "bad apples." My problem with the LE profession is that the citizens who are cops have an annoying tendency to play the "thin blue line" game and protect their bad apples.

    Common enough...try filing a complaint against a lawyer with the "lawyer mafia" or a realtor with the "realtor mafia" and see how far that gets you...but disappointing when those entrusted with enforcing the law let their own get away with breaking the law.
     

    jcb7469

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    My .02Cents is this.
    Anyone who deliberately baits an LEO is an idiot. Most LEO's are trying to do the right thing, do their job, stay safe and go home. They are faced with very tough decisions and oftentimes have to settle for the lesser of two evils in cases where no "right" solution exisits. Push a guy with the authority to kill you in some cases and see what happens. Even if you are right you spend thousands and risk your physical safety to prove a point.
    We hold and should hold Police to a higher standard and should because of several reasons.
    1. Oftentime a Police officers word is all that is neccessary to convict someone of a crime. In all cases all a police officer has the authority to deprive someone of their free movement at least temporarily. In most cases even an innocent suspect spends thousands of dollars to prove it. If you are going to have these kinds of privilidges you need to be watched a little more closely than joe schmo.
    2. A law enforcement officer is a public employee and as much as they hate to hear it they do work for us. My boss and your boss monitors your actions on the job as well.

    The reasons that I dont neccessarily trust a law enforcement officer is simple. The job of a LEO is not to protect me its to protect law and order. A LEO will Lie, if thats what it takes to make the streets safer. What is an undercover operation if not a big LIE. I wholly support this but let me tell you it means that I will be very careful in my dealing with any LEO. LEO's dont trust anyone for very good reasons. However, I dont trust anyone that doesnt trust me.

    Policework is tough but easy, its stressful and boring at the same time, you operate in a zero mistakes environment with minimal pay in most cases. So when someone is doing a high stress job for not much money it makes me wonder Why?. Sometimes the officer enjoys making the world safe. Some have a hero mentality and want to be the "GUY". Some want to be the next police commsioner/sherrif/chief and will try to make a name for themselves. Some like to be bullies and push people around and get back at the jock in high school that gave them swirlies. Some where the jock in high school that gave people swirlies and want to keep doing it. Some want to just do there last 3 years and retire on a full benefits plan with the least amount of trouble. Most I would bet are all of these sometimes. We call these people humans. However, when a cop pulls me over he doesnt know if im armed or not. I KNOW he is I KNOW he will be backed up by his buddies. I require he/she be held to a standard because at 2 in the morning that standard is all that keeps me joe public safe.

    When a citizen f's up we lawyer up. When a cop f's up he pulls the us vs them mentality or the thin blue line. I appreciate that cops dont want to go against there brother/sister cop and speak out publicly against a fellow cop. I hope and pray that behind closed doors they discuss amongst themselves what an asshole that bad cop was. I hope they talk about how it could be handled better. I dont neccessarily think they need to let us in the huddle and tell us all about their tactics and training. I do hope that they understand that we dont trust them completely for the same reason they dont trust us completely because they dont trust us nor should they.
     

    Texan2

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Nov 8, 2008
    7,932
    21
    South of San Antonio
    Thin blue line goes so far. Does it mean you probably won't get a speeding ticket? Probably, although not always the case. My wife and kid have both received citations (from MY department) over the years. Neither came and asked me for help they just paid them.

    Anything above that you are typically going to get the same treatment as anyone else. I have taken action against people who shouldn't be cops and been succesful on more than one occasion. Those people are no longer cops. Also been involved with getting a former cop convicted of a felony. There was no questioning what should be done. When it was discovered he committed a felony, he was arrested within 24 hours. The thin blue line is not a pass to become a criminal, at least not among any of the Texas agencies I am familiar with.

    I think part of it lies in the comparison. When someone is arrested we howl that they are "innocent until proven guilty" and that they "deserve their day in court". But when a cop is arrested.....we turn into a lynch mob and want justice dealt out immediately. Typically when they are guilty it comes out and they are convicted. Just like when a non LEO is on trial.

    As MMM previously stated, cops typically want to be rid of crooked cops.
     

    jcb7469

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Texan , I agree I think you should stick up for your brothers/sisters in public. But when the real assesment comes down I hope you are criitcal and use a process similiar to what we call in the Army an AAR. After Action Review and not in a formal way but in an around the break room kind of way.
     

    jordanmills

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 29, 2009
    5,371
    96
    Pearland, TX
    I have no clue who is right or not.

    But it bugs the crap out of me that they put so much focus on "mental handicapped". A man with a knife is a man with a knife. He's not rational. Which makes it even more dangerous. It's either justified or not. Makes no difference if he has all his marbles or not.

    To a far point that's true. If you have a guy with a knife and he's threatening people immediately around him, then action needs to be taken to keep him from harming those bystanders and the people who are trying to stop the harm. Doesn't matter who the knife-wielder is or what's wrong with them, the first priority is stopping likely harm.

    But a secondary priority is to safeguard the person making the threats. If someone is making threats because they're in an altered state of their mind, especially through no fault of their own then care should be taken to safeguard them, as long as it can be done without sacrificing the safety of others. I think there could be improvements to LEO training and tools. If you have a schizo barricaded in his house making crazy talk, don't bust in with guns ready and shoot him when he makes an (accounting for his mental state, probably reasonable) attempt to defend himself - get medical people in there who are trained to counsel, medicate, and subdue him. Long as it can be done without endangering others.
     

    TX69

    TGT Addict
    Emeritus - "Texas Proud"
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 23, 2012
    6,801
    21
    DFW
    Citizens should learn to accept some kills in the herd.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    Rule 1: Never invite the man into your life.
    Rule 2: See Rule 1.
    Rule 3: When you have ignored Rule 1 & 2, do not have a weapon in your hand when the man shows up.

    Imagine if there was no video. Think about it. Whatever the cop said would have been the official version.

    Has QuannelX made it up to Dallas yet?
     

    Jon Payne

    Well-Known
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 16, 2010
    2,017
    66
    Third Coast
    The problem is that a lot of the "good" ones will cover for a lot of the bad ones.

    It is impossible for you to quantify that statement. It may be your perception, but it isn't mine.

    I've worked with a guy that got away with all kinds of stupid stuff. His co-workers didn't cover for him. He had warning after warning. He ended up being fired for something silly.

    I've observed a deputy arrested for Family Violence based on his ex's word. She dropped charges and the DA picked them up and took it to trial. I've been to numerous domestic violence calls where the victim refused to cooperate and I filed on behalf of the state. Without the victims statement the DA refused to prosecute.

    My perception is when an officer is accused of an offense; administrators often look to make an example of that officer.

    I've noticed stories where the charges are publicized as well as the arrest, but if the officer is exonerated that doesn't make the news. It's just the way it is. You either deal with it or find another line of work.

    It's unfortunate that some of the opinions I read on this forum appeared to be formed from what is seen in the media and from Hollywood.
     

    Jon Payne

    Well-Known
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 16, 2010
    2,017
    66
    Third Coast
    Why would THAT surprise you? After all - as gun owners, we KNOW we can trust the media to give us the complete, unbiased truth!

    Oh, wait........

    My friend I'm not surprised in the least. I do wish that citizens would take it upon themselves to learn more about the job. There are depts that have citizen academies. That's a good place to start. There's nothing like viewing with your own eyes and getting the hands on to really understand the difference between modern policing and make believe.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    11,749
    96
    Texas
    It's unfortunate that some of the opinions I read on this forum appeared to be formed from what is seen in the media and from Hollywood.

    So your anecdotal stories of cops doing the right thing mean cops do not do bad things?

    Sorry, but corruption in LE is as common as it is in politics or banking or anything else. The only difference is we do not have video of a banker embezzling money from the bank.
     
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 9, 2013
    111
    1
    Houston, Texas
    My .02Cents is this.
    Anyone who deliberately baits an LEO is an idiot. Most LEO's are trying to do the right thing, do their job, stay safe and go home. They are faced with very tough decisions and oftentimes have to settle for the lesser of two evils in cases where no "right" solution exisits. Push a guy with the authority to kill you in some cases and see what happens. Even if you are right you spend thousands and risk your physical safety to prove a point.
    We hold and should hold Police to a higher standard and should because of several reasons.
    1. Oftentime a Police officers word is all that is neccessary to convict someone of a crime. In all cases all a police officer has the authority to deprive someone of their free movement at least temporarily. In most cases even an innocent suspect spends thousands of dollars to prove it. If you are going to have these kinds of privilidges you need to be watched a little more closely than joe schmo.
    2. A law enforcement officer is a public employee and as much as they hate to hear it they do work for us. My boss and your boss monitors your actions on the job as well.

    The reasons that I dont neccessarily trust a law enforcement officer is simple. The job of a LEO is not to protect me its to protect law and order. A LEO will Lie, if thats what it takes to make the streets safer. What is an undercover operation if not a big LIE. I wholly support this but let me tell you it means that I will be very careful in my dealing with any LEO. LEO's dont trust anyone for very good reasons. However, I dont trust anyone that doesnt trust me.

    Policework is tough but easy, its stressful and boring at the same time, you operate in a zero mistakes environment with minimal pay in most cases. So when someone is doing a high stress job for not much money it makes me wonder Why?. Sometimes the officer enjoys making the world safe. Some have a hero mentality and want to be the "GUY". Some want to be the next police commsioner/sherrif/chief and will try to make a name for themselves. Some like to be bullies and push people around and get back at the jock in high school that gave them swirlies. Some where the jock in high school that gave people swirlies and want to keep doing it. Some want to just do there last 3 years and retire on a full benefits plan with the least amount of trouble. Most I would bet are all of these sometimes. We call these people humans. However, when a cop pulls me over he doesnt know if im armed or not. I KNOW he is I KNOW he will be backed up by his buddies. I require he/she be held to a standard because at 2 in the morning that standard is all that keeps me joe public safe.

    When a citizen f's up we lawyer up. When a cop f's up he pulls the us vs them mentality or the thin blue line. I appreciate that cops dont want to go against there brother/sister cop and speak out publicly against a fellow cop. I hope and pray that behind closed doors they discuss amongst themselves what an $#@! that bad cop was. I hope they talk about how it could be handled better. I dont neccessarily think they need to let us in the huddle and tell us all about their tactics and training. I do hope that they understand that we dont trust them completely for the same reason they dont trust us completely because they dont trust us nor should they.

    I'm personally related to some LEO in several counties here in South E. Texas, I don't intend on bashing any of them, MOST of them are trying their best to make a living and do their job as good as possible to make a name for themselves, its understandable. It's the few, like in most cases that tend to ruin everything for others. I saw something on this thread that stands out in the Police community, US vs. Them Mentality . Not all criminals fall into that Thuggish look with the tattoos on the face and pants dragging on the floor. Most of the major ones are Average lookin Joes and Josie's. So their guard has to be up at all times... with that being said.... When Someone, anyone ( Mostly HUMAN subjects) with their guard up and adrenaline flowing are subject to trivial mistakes. Ex) We now live in a society where Some LEO's have killed young ones over toy guns, because the little one had it out in the wrong place. Is that justifiable? probably not, could he/she have done more to deescalate the situation to spare the kids life? Most likely? On the other hand, Who wants to be wrong about it, and lost their life? NO one.(that's probably why someone called the cops in the first place) I WONDER, what can we do as a community to ease the pressure of these LEO's AND/or citizens when it comes to these Situations? Maybe we should be able to handle such scenario's OURSELVES (without being scrutinized by law) Before we call someone who might be in fear for their lives as well when they hear " Of the incident(s)" on their Rover. I mean the list of examples could go on... to my point... Maybe if we don't want LEO's to have no much notoriety and power we VOTE on it and figure ways to handle our own domestic problems in a SENSABLE fashion before calling in the cowboys or police officers, However you address them. My 0.02 cents anyway...
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Top Bottom