Hurley's Gold

widespread price-gouging

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  • Anger

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    Jan 7, 2010
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    Washington MI (glorious in summer)
    How about looking at things this way. I'm joe blow . I stand outside at walmart, academy, etc to buy cheap ammo. I then quadruple the price on this item. I don't claim the income (required by federal law). I don't collect sales tax (required by state law). I'm basically a total douche ammo flipper.
     

    Southpaw

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    How about looking at things this way. I'm joe blow . I stand outside at walmart, academy, etc to buy cheap ammo. I then quadruple the price on this item. I don't claim the income (required by federal law). I don't collect sales tax (required by state law). I'm basically a total douche ammo flipper.

    But still, if there was no buyer for his ammo, there'd be no douche, or at least not in the ammo flipping game.
     

    Southpaw

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    Joe blow also forgot his buisness license. That would be in buisness 101


    These guys follow the rules like the bad guy heeds the No Gun Zone sign.

    I don't think anyone is sticking up for the flippers here btw. Personally, I am just stating how you keep them from making a living.
     

    CitizenSeven

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    Apr 28, 2013
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    The flippers are providing a valuable service: they're standing in line for people who can't or won't. Of course they're not doing this for free and, in a volatile commodity market like ammo the last few years, of course they're going to charge what the market will bear. If places like WalMart etc didn't buck the prevailing market prices, the flippers wouldn't have a margin on their arbitrage and would quickly disappear.
     

    Anger

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    The whining in this thread is amazing.

    If Joe Blow violating the law irritates you, report him

    might as well be blowing smoke up someone's rear. Look at this post, for example...
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=366690438

    $10 shipping. No hazmat. Cost legit buisness owners $27.50 plus $4.75 adult signature fee to ship within the law (Federal hazardous material transportation law 49 CFR Part 107.333). No one on the fed side gives a crap, reporting or no. Criminals prosper, law abiding citizens take it in the rear by loosing buisness to criminals.
     

    Southpaw

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    might as well be blowing smoke up someone's rear. Look at this post, for example...
    SMALL PISTOL PRIMERS 1000pcs CCI no.500 BRICK : Reloading Supplies at GunBroker.com

    $10 shipping. No hazmat. Cost legit buisness owners $27.50 plus $4.75 adult signature fee to ship within the law (Federal hazardous material transportation law 49 CFR Part 107.333). No one on the fed side gives a crap, reporting or no. Criminals prosper, law abiding citizens take it in the rear by loosing buisness to criminals.


    Wait till one of his packages breaks open and they find out what it is. He'll be paying then, no?
     

    Anger

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    Wait till one of his packages breaks open and they find out what it is. He'll be paying then, no?

    'maybe' but illegals like that have been costing me $$ for years and it peeves me off if you can't tell. It's "capitalism" but it's not "anarchy". Strikes me funny how purveyors of law and order on this board, quickly defend illegal buisness activities under the guise of "capitalism".
     
    Last edited:

    Tony2

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    Its not capitalism its price gouging. But at least its helping get the jobless rate down and float the economy.
     

    Kyle

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    I own a business... I know if I overcharge, I lose business.. people will call me a gouger and go some place else to spend there money.. That is how honest business works... The market demands decide the price. There is a fine line between capitalism and being an a$$hole though. To truly take advantage of capitalism it seems (THESE DAYS) that you can't have a conscience. Im not going to wrap a turd in tinfoil and call it silver, it is not in me to do so. These guys know that they are taking advantage of the panicked and ill prepared... It is frustrating more than anything because there is so little honesty anymore. Yah, it technically is (dishonest) capitalism, but that doesn't change the morality of it and it is not justification for such blatant exploitation. All these guys are doing is gathering as much product as they can at normal vendor prices, making it unavailable for others at those prices so they can resell it to them at horrendously inflated prices... then they look you in the eye and tell you they are doing you a favor... Seriously? you're defending that behavior? The buyers don't have a choice at that point but to pay up or be without...
     

    Southpaw

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    I own a business... I know if I overcharge, I lose business.. people will call me a gouger and go some place else to spend there money.. That is how honest business works... The market demands decide the price. There is a fine line between capitalism and being an a$$hole though. To truly take advantage of capitalism it seems (THESE DAYS) that you can't have a conscience. Im not going to wrap a turd in tinfoil and call it silver, it is not in me to do so. These guys know that they are taking advantage of the panicked and ill prepared... It is frustrating more than anything because there is so little honesty anymore. Yah, it technically is (dishonest) capitalism, but that doesn't change the morality of it and it is not justification for such blatant exploitation. All these guys are doing is gathering as much product as they can at normal vendor prices, making it unavailable for others at those prices so they can resell it to them at horrendously inflated prices... then they look you in the eye and tell you they are doing you a favor... Seriously? you're defending that behavior? The buyers don't have a choice at that point but to pay up or be without...

    And if the majority made the choice to be without after we realized the supply had crashed, these guys would have gone away, some almost overnight. They would have been crushed by their overhead, ran out of savings or been in divorce court within 30 to 60 days and everyone could have just went back to buying what amounts they were buying before it all went to hell.
     

    ag1052

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    Sep 9, 2013
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    How much of a markup does it take to be gouging? Yes the guy charging 400% is price gouging but is there any dollar amount or percentage someone could add to the ammo they bought in the store and it still be a fair price or are we against all buying for the sake of reselling?
     

    Kyle

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    And if the majority made the choice to be without after we realized the supply had crashed, these guys would have gone away, some almost overnight. They would have been crushed by their overhead, ran out of savings or been in divorce court within 30 to 60 days and everyone could have just went back to buying what amounts they were buying before it all went to hell.

    Try telling someone who think's they will never see another another .223 cartridge in their life time to just "be without". If people weren't prone to panic, that would be the logical way to stop the nonsense.
     

    CrazedJava

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    Um...any of you guys run your own business or worked in the private sector as a vendor? I see Kyle's response and I think he's on the money. No pun intended.

    Price gouging is not an ok practice and it is not "the very definition of capitalism".

    The fact that we have capitalism in this country is why price gouging is possible. Just remember that just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it isn't immoral or unethical.

    Part of the equation, and I do mean just part, is customer satisfaction. The exchange of goods and services is more than just supply and demand. That is capitalism at its simplest, but the "demand" part of that over-simplified equation also includes things like perceived value and customer satisfaction.

    When supply is constricted, or appears to be constricted (in this case the demand was FAR greater than supply) a business owner might see an opportunity to raise prices. However, they trade on customer satisfaction to do so. There is a cold calculation in there somewhere that would allow you to raise prices but not to an extent that it would significantly raise customer dissatisfaction. Of course, the precise number is not going to be available without the ability to conduct market research that would be beyond most small business owners. However, you can generally gauge just be modifying price structure and soliciting customer feedback.

    Price gouging is when goods are sold above "market value". Now, determining market value is difficult because it CANNOT be straight MSRP. After all, it is the manufacturer that sets MSRP and that could easily be ABOVE market price just as easily as BELOW. However, if you are way off the MSRP there is a good chance you are not selling anywhere close to market value.

    On the other hand, as a parent I know that if I want behavior to stop then I should not reward it, even when it is painful for me to do so. I refused to pay above what I considered market value for ammo and that meant when I took possession of a 9mm handgun in late December of 2012 I had to make do with whatever rounds I could get, which weren't many. However, with a little luck and effort I was able to pick up a few hundred rounds by buying a box here or there when they showed up on shelves. I also made sure to give my business to places that made an effort to provide the best customer service they could during a period of sky high demand.

    Ultimately, there is nothing that can really be done about price gouging other than not giving money to people who do it. However, that does not mean price gouging is simply ok either. It is a form of exploitation. Consider that if you are looking to purchase any goods from someone who has put a high mark-up on their merchandise. Do you want that person to exploit YOU?
     
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