Winchester 1897 Riot Shotgun - Pricing?

[cnl390]

I have a Winchester 1897 12 gauge pump riot shotgun. I researched the serial number and believe it was manufactured in 1922. It is in good condition and it shoots well. I would like to sell it but really don't even know where to start as far as pricing. I looked on Gunbroker but all those are asking prices and run from $450-$1200. I am certain that someone in this forum knows a lot more than me. I don't want to get rich or cheat anybody, I am just looking for a fair price that the shotgun will sell for.
Thanks

 

[Eli]

Is it an actual riot gun or one that was cut down? Actual riot guns have tended toy be $$$$ for several years, but this really isn't the economy to be selling one.

Eli

 

[mtaylor]

Early 16 ga. Model 1897s were chambered for 2 9/16 in. shotshells, and are not as valuable because of the 2 3/4 in. shell length currently manufactured. This model was marked "Model 1897" on the slide action rails until circa 1912 (approx. ser. no. 500,000). After approx. ser. no. 500,000, the marking was moved to the barrel and changed to Model 97. The Model 1897 was the first Winchester shotgun chambered for 2 3/4 in. smokeless ammunition. This model was also manufactured with a damascus barrel for a short period of time, and is rare.

12 or 16 ga. (introduced 1900), improved Model 1893 action, 26-32 in. barrels, visible hammer, various chokes, takedown or solid frame, plain pistol grip stock. Over 1,024,700 mfg. between 1897-1957.

Military Trench/Riot- high-polish commercial blue finish, solid frame with 6 row ventilated handguard for bayonet attachment, walnut high comb stock with hard rubber buttplate (no cartouches in stock). Guns used by the U.S. Army for trench warfare in WWI, originally did not have military markings. A "U.S." and ordnance bomb were hand stamped on the right side of the receiver on trench guns kept in the Army's inventory after the war. Military markings were added in the 1920s to about 10% of the total production. Serial range 650,000-695,000.

During WWII the military used Winchester Models 97,12, & 37.

Model 97 - commercial high polish blue, changed from solid frame to takedown in 1935. Trench guns made through 1945 and Riot gun mfg. continued until 1960s.
Winchester Model 97 Solid Frame - Serial range 700,000+.

Model 97 - takedown model, high polish commercial blue finish, finger groove walnut stock with hard rubber buttplate. All early riot and trench guns have "WB" and crossed cannons cartouches on the left side of stock, left side of receiver is machined marked "U.S." with or w/o ordnance bomb. All "WB" trenchguns have a 6 row ventilated handguard. All 97s will have ordnance bomb on top of barrel. Around serial range 950,000, receivers were all marked on left side with a machined "U.S." and ordnance bomb proofs, ventilated handguard was changed to a 4 row, "GHD" and ordnance bomb cartouches on left side of stock. During this transition, a very few examples with 6 row handguards were mfg. Serial range 920,000-960,000.

If it were a true Riot gun in 98% it would get about $1500. In 60% condition about $300...

 

[TSU45]

Early 16 ga. Model 1897s were chambered for 2 9/16 in. shotshells, and are not as valuable because of the 2 3/4 in. shell length currently manufactured. This model was marked "Model 1897" on the slide action rails until circa 1912 (approx. ser. no. 500,000). After approx. ser. no. 500,000, the marking was moved to the barrel and changed to Model 97. The Model 1897 was the first Winchester shotgun chambered for 2 3/4 in. smokeless ammunition. This model was also manufactured with a damascus barrel for a short period of time, and is rare.

12 or 16 ga. (introduced 1900), improved Model 1893 action, 26-32 in. barrels, visible hammer, various chokes, takedown or solid frame, plain pistol grip stock. Over 1,024,700 mfg. between 1897-1957.

Military Trench/Riot- high-polish commercial blue finish, solid frame with 6 row ventilated handguard for bayonet attachment, walnut high comb stock with hard rubber buttplate (no cartouches in stock). Guns used by the U.S. Army for trench warfare in WWI, originally did not have military markings. A "U.S." and ordnance bomb were hand stamped on the right side of the receiver on trench guns kept in the Army's inventory after the war. Military markings were added in the 1920s to about 10% of the total production. Serial range 650,000-695,000.

During WWII the military used Winchester Models 97,12, & 37.

Model 97 - commercial high polish blue, changed from solid frame to takedown in 1935. Trench guns made through 1945 and Riot gun mfg. continued until 1960s.
Winchester Model 97 Solid Frame - Serial range 700,000+.

Model 97 - takedown model, high polish commercial blue finish, finger groove walnut stock with hard rubber buttplate. All early riot and trench guns have "WB" and crossed cannons cartouches on the left side of stock, left side of receiver is machined marked "U.S." with or w/o ordnance bomb. All "WB" trenchguns have a 6 row ventilated handguard. All 97s will have ordnance bomb on top of barrel. Around serial range 950,000, receivers were all marked on left side with a machined "U.S." and ordnance bomb proofs, ventilated handguard was changed to a 4 row, "GHD" and ordnance bomb cartouches on left side of stock. During this transition, a very few examples with 6 row handguards were mfg. Serial range 920,000-960,000.

If it were a true Riot gun in 98% it would get about $1500. In 60% condition about $300...

Holy shit just scan the Blue Book page and save some time.

 

[TSU45]

Sorry man, like Eli hinted at, it's a cut down standard 97. Shoot the hell out of it and enjoy it.

Kind of cool that it is still the original barrel even though the collector value is gone. Makes you wonder when down the line it was modified and where it has been.

That thing would be awesome to slamfire in a shotgun match.

 

[gunsmoke11]

I'd like to say a few things regarding the winchester model 1897 riot gun. On most of these forums the questions are pretty much the same. There are those out there who are very knowledgeable where these shotguns are concerned, but for anyone with doubts concerning the originality of theirs they should contact the Cody Firearms Museum at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, Wy.. For $60 and approximately a 4 week wait, they'll send you a letter, which will reflect the winchester records and will definately tell you whether, or not you have an original riot, or trench gun for that matter. Naturally you'd have to find out for yourself whether, or not the gun had been tampered with such as, refinishing, fake markings associating the gun with a PD, or some other entity. It's nice to know if that sling swivel was added at a later date. Most of these things require a personal examination of the weapon and can't be done by posting a photo on the internet, though sometimes people can give valuble info. These riot guns can break the normal rules regarding their configuration when they've been special ordered. After many years I finally purchased a riot in a gunshop when another customer handed it back. It had that brown patina, nice clean wood and rounded pistol grip and smooth action, with the ser# around 101,000, which is the oldest I ever had my hands on. The only thing that concerned me was 2 marks at the rear of the barrel on the sides near the receiver, which looked like it was grabbed slightly by a wrench. I felt it was an amaturish attempt at removing the barrel, perhaps to replce it with a 30" for hunting, or to hold the gun down in order to cut the barrel down to 20". Since I examined the front bead sight and couldn't find any sign on the surrounding finish that it was placed there after any tampering I bought it. I own many guns, but unfortunately this one had taken a back seat to my others for 3 years. Finally for my own sanity I finally sent for a letter just to know for sure. It turned out great. The letter stated that the shotgun was a 12 gauge, 20" barrel, riot. Received at the warehouse on June 26, 1900 and shipped on Sept. 19, 1900 to places unknown. At least now I know it's a riot for sure and if I were to sell it I can verify it's authenticity. I have some very expensive guns and most I've gotten letters for. End of story.

 

[Texas1911]

I really have grown to like the Model 97 ... and I will own one eventually.

 

[gunsmoke11]

It's unbelievable how many of these '97 riots are around. I've read that they number around 30 thousand, not counting the dummied up ones, which by the way are nice too if bought for the right price. I think they made alot more trench guns. That's very few considering 97's numbered over one million. I bought mine just a few years ago after wanting one since the late 1960's after seeing The Wild Bunch. I had gone into the NYPD and was assigned to the Tactical Patrol Force(TPF) and had lots of shotgun training usually using the Ithica model 37 Deerslayer. I liked it so much that I purchased the deluxe model. There were straps put on the forend of our dept guns to prevent your hand from slipping off while slam firing. Whoever thought of that had a great idea and slam firing was how they would teach us. It was lots of fun, except when wearing gas masks in the summer heat. Unfortunately, I sold mine several years later for X-Mas money. Back then I just gave up on the '97, cause the money wasn't there. My friend bought a riot gun at a gun show in Allentown, Pa. around ten years ago and really got burned. It had a sheriff's dept. from Az, or Nv and number stencilled with white paint on the stock. It turned out that the barrel was an original riot, but the gun as listed on the letter he got from the Cody Museum originally had a 30" barrel with a different choke. Also, that sheriff's dept. never existed. You don't have to be an expert to buy a '97 and I'm sure not, but you just have to be careful. If you want one bad enough then one day you definately will find the one that's meant for you.

 

[M. Sage]

I really have grown to like the Model 97 ... and I will own one eventually.

I need a trench gun model...

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

Don't hold the trigger when bringing the slide forward. Those with some wear will fire on closing.

 

[TSU45]

Don't hold the trigger when bringing the slide forward. Those with some wear will fire on closing.

That's what all the early ones do, it's how they were originally designed.

 

[M. Sage]

That's what all the early ones do, it's how they were originally designed.

Yep, no disconnector. Common on old shotguns of every brand.

 

[Mauserman]

I want a Trench-gun model myself.
Maybe someday

 

[Texas1911]

I need a trench gun model...

Don't we all ... don't we all.

 

[Texas1911]

I want a Trench-gun model myself.
Maybe someday

We should make a "I want a trencher for XMAS 2011" club.

 

[Texas1911]

Don't hold the trigger when bringing the slide forward. Those with some wear will fire on closing.

That's what makes them fun ... slam fire awesomeness.

 

[Paolo]

A greeting to all participants.
I state, that I write, with the help of google translate, and I hope, you understand the meaning of my words.
I own a 1897 long-barreled Winchester, perhaps hunting. I show you some pictures if I can insert them.

 

[Paolo]

 

[Paolo]

I want to know if the model with a shorter barrel, has the same features and therefore it is possible to apply a choice a long or short barrel depending of 'use, hunting or defense.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

The US Military "sawed of" a considerable number of conventional shotguns to be used as "trench guns" during WWI at Rock Island & numerous others were "sawed off" at San Antonio Army Arsenal during the Inter-war era.
(SOME of the RIA & SAAD guns were marked & some were NOT.)


Also, slightly off-topic but during the late 1920s & into the 1930s the Winchester FACTORY sold some "hybrids" of the Model 1897 & Model 12.

MOST of those "factory hybrids" were sold to penitentiaries and (particularly to ) "road camps" & to "guard companies" in Dixie during The Great Depression.
(My brother-of-the-heart has an original "road camp gun" that was originally sold to a MS "chain gang camp" in 1931. = It has a Model 12 action & stock & a 28-inch "marked" 1897 barrel.)

yours, satx