Windows 10 Update

[avvidclif]

You can not fully disable auto updates. You can delay the update but the update software "IS" going to be downloaded. I'll restate. With Windows 10 Home edition you can not stop the update. With Windows 10 Professional you have a few options that may or may not prevent FORCED update. It just pisses me off to no end that "someone" feels they have the right/obligation to protect me from myself when I'm willing, and able, to make those decisions - and accept responsibility for the result whatever that may be.

If you tell it you are on a metered connection it will not download updates until you tell it to. I had 6 months of updates waiting last time.

Win 10 Home 64

 

[Darkpriest667]

Yep. From a user's perspective, MS10 wasn't that bad. From a manufacturing perspective, it sucks donky balls. I work for a company that builds things. You, and probably everyone else would be shocked how prevalent legacy programs are. Over half of our production programs are in VB6. The rest are in C#.

A LOT LOT of people like BRAINS don't deal with manufacturers and it shows. They run equipment and hardware that runs on legacy code that ONLY windows support. Hell even ubuntu has cut out 16 and 32 bit support. Its 64 or nothing for them. Well that's great, until you have a manufacturing line that produces a critical military component and the custom legacy software that runs those machines ONLY works on 16bit code. LOL there might be a linux distro that supports it but then you have to rewrite the software. Microsoft has a monopoly on those people and they know it. There are power plants that are running programs that were developed for Windows 3.11 and THATS why THAT code (and registries) are still in Windows 10.

Ask me how I know.

So yeah convert over to MAC. That's all good for me. I'm not a Windows Fanboy and I run about 4 OSes through VMs on my home system, but Windows does have reasons to exist. I'm not happy about it, but MAC will not be able to get those customers unless they spend a shit ton of money and resources backbuilding to support legacy code and hardware. NTVDM exists in Windows for a reason.

EDIT-- Just checked the NDA to make sure i can say this. Haliburton has an entire production line that runs a version of MS office that has to be enabled through NTVDM. The reason for it is that the excel sheet that tracks and monitors their entire production line for logistics capabilities as well as the program that CONTROLS THE FREAKING MACHINES ONLY WORKS IN EXCEL 4.0.

The guy that wrote the code has been dead since 1998 and there is no one who understands the operation enough AND has coding capability to rewrite the code to my knowledge

EDIT 2 -- BTW brains if you think APPL is going to charge 300 a head (plus server plus yadda) you're insane. RHEL charges 180 and they're a much cheaper alternative than anything OSX has ever done in the enterprise realm. I'd be shocked if it was less than 600 a seat.

 

[G O B]

I am not an IT guy, but for about $50 I bought a 1T E-drive and made a recovery drive. Back it up every week or so (retired and do not have a lot of new files), so I can restore it when they get the updates wrong. Has happened a few times-usually a hard re-set gets it back, but I have noticed that some updates are followed by another minuets later that takes just as long but restores usability.

 

[robertc1024]

A LOT LOT of people like BRAINS don't deal with manufacturers and it shows. They run equipment and hardware that runs on legacy code that ONLY windows support. Hell even ubuntu has cut out 16 and 32 bit support. Its 64 or nothing for them. Well that's great, until you have a manufacturing line that produces a critical military component and the custom legacy software that runs those machines ONLY works on 16bit code. LOL there might be a linux distro that supports it but then you have to rewrite the software. Microsoft has a monopoly on those people and they know it. There are power plants that are running programs that were developed for Windows 3.11 and THATS why THAT code (and registries) are still in Windows 10.

Ask me how I know.

So yeah convert over to MAC. That's all good for me. I'm not a Windows Fanboy and I run about 4 OSes through VMs on my home system, but Windows does have reasons to exist. I'm not happy about it, but MAC will not be able to get those customers unless they spend a shit ton of money and resources backbuilding to support legacy code and hardware. NTVDM exists in Windows for a reason.

EDIT-- Just checked the NDA to make sure i can say this. Haliburton has an entire production line that runs a version of MS office that has to be enabled through NTVDM. The reason for it is that the excel sheet that tracks and monitors their entire production line for logistics capabilities as well as the program that CONTROLS THE FREAKING MACHINES ONLY WORKS IN EXCEL 4.0.

The guy that wrote the code has been dead since 1998 and there is no one who understands the operation enough AND has coding capability to rewrite the code to my knowledge

EDIT 2 -- BTW brains if you think APPL is going to charge 300 a head (plus server plus yadda) you're insane. RHEL charges 180 and they're a much cheaper alternative than anything OSX has ever done in the enterprise realm. I'd be shocked if it was less than 600 a seat.

Oh, I know. If you deal with the FAA, or nukes, when code is written, and approved, you can't change it.

 

[G O B]

Much machinery CANNOT be upgraded. I have had elevators running on legacy systems. The 'tool' is a laptop to communicate with the controller. Some as old as C64! The price of updating is more than replacement, and when it works just fine, the customer will NOT spend $10.000 to $100,000 just update to a new controller that makes NO DIFFERENCE to operation of the equipment!
The 'tool' is usually loaded with "Propitiatory"software and a drop dead date. Every year the date in the 'tool' has to be manually reset keep it alive. There are some I know of that think this 1998! They will quit working in 1999!

 

[jordanmills]

Yep. From a user's perspective, MS10 wasn't that bad. From a manufacturing perspective, it sucks donky balls. I work for a company that builds things. You, and probably everyone else would be shocked how prevalent legacy programs are. Over half of our production programs are in VB6. The rest are in C#.

MS10?

That's embedded OSes and isolated SCADA networks are for.

 

[jordanmills]

I am not an IT guy, but for about $50 I bought a 1T E-drive and made a recovery drive. Back it up every week or so (retired and do not have a lot of new files), so I can restore it when they get the updates wrong. Has happened a few times-usually a hard re-set gets it back, but I have noticed that some updates are followed by another minuets later that takes just as long but restores usability.

Look into the "file history" feature.

 

[jordanmills]

Much machinery CANNOT be upgraded. I have had elevators running on legacy systems. The 'tool' is a laptop to communicate with the controller. Some as old as C64! The price of updating is more than replacement, and when it works just fine, the customer will NOT spend $10.000 to $100,000 just update to a new controller that makes NO DIFFERENCE to operation of the equipment!
The 'tool' is usually loaded with "Propitiatory"software and a drop dead date. Every year the date in the 'tool' has to be manually reset keep it alive. There are some I know of that think this 1998! They will quit working in 1999!

Dumb on both the vendor to do it that way and the purchaser for not looking into their nonsense close enough before buying.

 

[Brains]

A LOT LOT of people like BRAINS don't deal with manufacturers and it shows. They run equipment and hardware that runs on legacy code that ONLY windows support. Hell even ubuntu has cut out 16 and 32 bit support. Its 64 or nothing for them. Well that's great, until you have a manufacturing line that produces a critical military component and the custom legacy software that runs those machines ONLY works on 16bit code. LOL there might be a linux distro that supports it but then you have to rewrite the software. Microsoft has a monopoly on those people and they know it. There are power plants that are running programs that were developed for Windows 3.11 and THATS why THAT code (and registries) are still in Windows 10.

Ask me how I know.

So yeah convert over to MAC. That's all good for me. I'm not a Windows Fanboy and I run about 4 OSes through VMs on my home system, but Windows does have reasons to exist. I'm not happy about it, but MAC will not be able to get those customers unless they spend a shit ton of money and resources backbuilding to support legacy code and hardware. NTVDM exists in Windows for a reason.

EDIT-- Just checked the NDA to make sure i can say this. Haliburton has an entire production line that runs a version of MS office that has to be enabled through NTVDM. The reason for it is that the excel sheet that tracks and monitors their entire production line for logistics capabilities as well as the program that CONTROLS THE FREAKING MACHINES ONLY WORKS IN EXCEL 4.0.

The guy that wrote the code has been dead since 1998 and there is no one who understands the operation enough AND has coding capability to rewrite the code to my knowledge

EDIT 2 -- BTW brains if you think APPL is going to charge 300 a head (plus server plus yadda) you're insane. RHEL charges 180 and they're a much cheaper alternative than anything OSX has ever done in the enterprise realm. I'd be shocked if it was less than 600 a seat.

Clearly you're not the decision maker. These "untouchable" ancient tools, and yes I do have a very small number, have been isolated away in my environment. I don't rely on any support for them on modern desktops, because lets face it - that's stupid. Most have been virtualized to better control their environment and are accessed remotely. It's much easier to select virtual hardware with a few mouse clicks than to try carrying forward some fossil product you sat on your hands ignoring for a decade or more. "Well it was mandated and I couldn't do anything about it." Yeah, well, too bad so sad - but I did do something about it, and I'm now in a nice comfortable position to change anything that makes sense.

The comment you made about some guy who wrote some code being dead for 22 years is another one of those example of laziness and foolishness. We run a LOT of custom software. Most of our tools were custom developed. The difference is in who controls the source. Before I worked for the company, there was one instance where they hired a firm to build something. It was ultimately a costly disaster, and at that time the decision was made to not travel that road again. I came in after that, and the ball was already rolling in the right direction. So nearly everything we run, we control the source. Most of it we wrote. The stuff we didn't, we either have legal access to the source or the system is documented well enough to be able to duplicate in house if that ever becomes necessary. As time went by and I became that decision maker, I have carried the philosophy forward. Sounds like you worked in an environment where somebody wrote some system in a vacuum while y'all happily sat around with your thumbs in a dark crevice, and want to be mad because we didn't?

Your comment about "backbuilding" legacy stuff is very real though, and as I mentioned in an earlier post there is a high cost of doing just that if I make the decision to switch platforms. The fact is that if the TCO to switch exceeds that of staying on Windows, we're staying on Windows. But, since we have a very good control over the software running in our environment, that cost is much easier for us to scope. Due to our extensive use of iOS in the enterprise, we already have developer familiarity too.

There's no telling what Apple will charge per head, if at all. There's no indication what their service and product landscape will even look like outside of the cost of it. That's the waiting game. With the OS X on ARM transition there's a LOT of unknowns there too. The current Apple Server product is limited in comparison to Windows Server, and is targeted to a smaller infrastructure. But they charge $20 for it, all in. No CALs, no device licenses, no OS license, no software assurance, no renewals, no contracts. You get directory services, email server, web server, blogs, wiki, device and software management, profile management, update deployment, file sharing, etc. For 20 bucks. Once. Lots of f/OSS in there too, which is really nice.

Will Apple get back into the server hardware game? Will they license a new server product to run on commodity hardware? Who knows, they aren't saying anything. Honestly, the bigger question is really "does a legacy server product like that even make sense in today's world?" Unless you're entrenched, the answer is becoming more of a no. That's the market I believe Apple is going to be targeting, the modern business. The crusty fudds can keep on keepin' on.

Times change man.

 

[Glenn B]

This thread was posted yesterday at 0729, I am typing this in at 1420 the following day. There are 7 pages and 69 replies as I type. It's about Windows 10 - I repeat - it's about Windows 10 - people! I am amazed because this is supposed to be a firearms site not a computer egghead geek site. I guess there are some truly firearms related posts that generate that many hits in just a day and a third (more or less) like when someone says Glocks are better than 1911s (and yes they are indeed better), but man oh man I am nonplussed that a firearms site would generate so much interest in such a short time over a problematic, or at least time consuming, Windows 10 update. It just boggles the mind, at least my mind anyway. And please, mind you, I am not trying to shame the OP, nice topic and all, but 69 responses in that short a time on a firearms forum!!!

 

[TheDan]

Part of my job is troubleshooting chromebooks. Last year there were two major issues with chromebooks that I discovered. One was - schools didn't properly power down chromebooks at the end of the year so they would all be dead at the beginning of the next year.

I'm a relatively new user to chromebooks, but noticed that "feature" within the first week of ownership. I be sure to hit the actual shutdown button now instead of just closing the lid and expecting it to hibernate.

My impression is chromebooks are hard to screw up. What sort of issues do you see often? I bet since it's education related you're dealing with the bargain basement ones... I actually sprung for a nicer one.

Us non-IT guys are kinda stuck though. ... For personal use, I dumped Microsoft. Wife has an old Mac that runs perfectly. Most of my stuff is done on a hacked Amazon fire. The laptop I rarely use is on Unbuntu.

I think you're more ahead of the curve than your realize.

Much machinery CANNOT be upgraded.

I'm in the if it works, don't upgrade camp. Would rather swivel chair an offline system or write an emulator than try to update a legacy system that is otherwise working fine.

 

[Darkpriest667]

I'm a relatively new user to chromebooks, but noticed that "feature" within the first week of ownership. I be sure to hit the actual shutdown button now instead of just closing the lid and expecting it to hibernate.

My impression is chromebooks are hard to screw up. What sort of issues do you see often? I bet since it's education related you're dealing with the bargain basement ones... I actually sprung for a nicer one.

I think you're more ahead of the curve than your realize.


I'm in the if it works, don't upgrade camp. Would rather swivel chair an offline system or write an emulator than try to update a legacy system that is otherwise working fine.

The primary issue we see that I am allowed to say outside of NDA is that Google likes to update things without testing them on various platforms. they also don't tell OEMs until the update is already out so Dell HP Lenovo are left scrambling to make sure those updates are compatible.

I will say Linux, Goog, and MS all have various benefits and challenges. Google is too new for me to be pissed off at them a lot of the time, but last year they sure did make my job hard.

 

[oldag]

This thread was posted yesterday at 0729, I am typing this in at 1420 the following day. There are 7 pages and 69 replies as I type. It's about Windows 10 - I repeat - it's about Windows 10 - people! I am amazed because this is supposed to be a firearms site not a computer egghead geek site. I guess there are some truly firearms related posts that generate that many hits in just a day and a third (more or less) like when someone says Glocks are better than 1911s (and yes they are indeed better), but man oh man I am nonplussed that a firearms site would generate so much interest in such a short time over a problematic, or at least time consuming, Windows 10 update. It just boggles the mind, at least my mind anyway. And please, mind you, I am not trying to shame the OP, nice topic and all, but 69 responses in that short a time on a firearms forum!!!

Well, for starters this was posted in the "Off topic" thread. So what is the problem?

Secondly, everyone posting on here is using a computer of some type (smart phones are computers). Don't think the mods are getting forum members' snail mail and keypunching the letters in for them.

 

[rotor]

It's the Electronics and Video Games part of the forum. I am typing this on a Win 10 computer that would not boot after the "Feature update to Win 10, version 2004" Had to completely restore my computer to an earlier date. Apparently I am not the only one with problems. If your Ruger has a problem you call Ruger and they fix it. If your Win 10 has a problem you are screwed.

 

[Glenn B]

Well, for starters this was posted in the "Off topic" thread. So what is the problem?

Secondly, everyone posting on here is using a computer of some type (smart phones are computers). Don't think the mods are getting forum members' snail mail and keypunching the letters in for them.

There is no problem, where do you see me mentioning a problem? I did not mention a problem - did I. I said I was essentially amazed such a topic would garner so much interest in a gun forum. Am I not allowed to have my opinion - whether or not I see it as a problem or as merely something that befuddles me (the latter being in essence exactly what I said about it)!

 

[C7Z062019]

Another still on Windows 7. It will do everything I need to do and more. So far with Norton I've been safe.

 

[oldag]

There is no problem, where do you see me mentioning a problem? I did not mention a problem - did I. I said I was essentially amazed such a topic would garner so much interest in a gun forum. Am I not allowed to have my opinion - whether or not I see it as a problem or as merely something that befuddles me (the latter being in essence exactly what I said about it)!

Never mind.

 

[TheDan]

I was essentially amazed such a topic would garner so much interest in a gun forum.

I'm pretty sure everyone here uses a computer is some capacity. We can all empathize about shitty updates.

 

[Army 1911]

At least it's not about cars, bikes, Bbq vs grilling, prepping, tools, box stores or other things gun owners have no interest in.

Did my sarcasm come through?

Has anyone found my 10mm socket?

 

[IXLR8]

I just run VM’s on my PC. You can make them any operating system you want. If one gets infected, loading a copy takes a minute. Plus you can take snapshots before you make a big change and revert back to them.

if you just need a desktop computer to browse the internet, buy a Raspberry Pi. For less than $50, you can load up Chrome browser, a software suite that will read and write to any office file. Plus can easily support a 4K monitor.