Would you get a Texas LTC if there was no fee paid to the state?

[Hoji]

I can say, with absolute certainty , that a lot of folks that come here had some of the shittiest LTC instructors in Texas.
So shitty in fact, it really does make the case for abolishing the LTC program altogether and just go to CC.

 

[mongoose]

I don’t think we will notice anything different. A bunch’s new inexperienced gun owners ain’t gonna decide to strap up just because they don’t have a license.

I can count on one hand how many people I have seen open carrying since it passed and I live in a semi rural area.




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In the years that NM has had open carry I have only seen 5 people taking advantage of it. Three of those were from one family.

 

[General Zod]

And I've never seen a 51/50 sign either.

That's what TexasRedneck is trying to tell you. Nobody has seen a "51/50" sign...it's not a thing.

There are the "unlicensed posession is prohibited" signs, you see those a lot. If you're carrying with your LTC, then the sign has no effect on you. If you're carrying illegally, then the sign still means nothing because you're already violating the law, whether you read the sign or not.

There are the 30.06 and 30.07 signs that prohibit concealed and open carry, respectively - and they have a specific wording and letter height that is required for them to be valid.

And there are the 51% signs, which prohibit carry in an establishment that makes more than half its revenue from serving alcohol.

And those are just about all of the legally valid signs that have to do with carrying weapons in Texas.

 

[Hoji]

FYI - the EXACT wording required is:

"Pursuant to Section 30.06 (Trespass by License Holder With a Concealed Handgun), Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411 (Department of Public Safety of the State of Texas), Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"

Sounds to me like you were reading the warning about unlicensed carry - because licensed carry in a 30.06 posted establishment is a Misdemeanor.

To add to what TR stated, the signs must be in English and Spanish and have....... screw it I’ll just post the requirements;

• A person violates this section if he/she carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden. A person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication. Written communication includes a card, sign, or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun." The card, sign, or document must be in English and Spanish, posted in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public, where the letters appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height.

 

[Zazonkers]

To add to what TR stated, the signs must be in English and Spanish and have....... screw it I’ll just post the requirements;

• A person violates this section if he/she carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden. A person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication. Written communication includes a card, sign, or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun." The card, sign, or document must be in English and Spanish, posted in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public, where the letters appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height.

Thanks hoji and txrednk for all the valuable info. Glad I’m back in TX!

 

[Hoji]

Let me clarify on my abolish the LTC program.

I am now more than ever convinced that the majority of LTC instructors just suck. Seriously. It pisses me off to no end knowing that anyone who has taken one of my classes( and any of the other LTC instructors I know personally) comes away with a good working knowledge of the law. Why? Because we actually engage the students and push for feedback insuring that they “get it”

I think we are a tiny minority.

Abolish the whole system for state “instructors” keep the $40 administrative fee to run a background check for a permit for those who travel out of state and want to bypass NICS.
The only way to get these booger eating halfwits out of the business of spreading bullshit is to eliminate the program.

If any instructors are certified in theSchool Safety Instructor program, let them keep up with that license to actually train school personnel.

 

[toddnjoyce]

...

Abolish the whole system for state “instructors” keep the $40 administrative fee to run a background check for a permit for those who travel out of state and want to bypass NICS....

That’s how it’s done in CO. Go to the Sheriff’s Office, fill out the app, pay a small fee and get a trifold of relevant laws with your permit.

 

[benenglish]

The only way to get these booger eating halfwits out of the business of spreading bullshit is to eliminate the program.

Maybe. I will agree that, if the TGT posts some of their students have made are to be believed, there are some incredibly incompetent people out there teaching LTC classes. If CC causes a number of them to quit teaching, that, by itself, is plenty of reason to support CC.

 

[Hoji]

Maybe. I will agree that, if the TGT posts some of their students have made are to be believed, there are some incredibly incompetent people out there teaching LTC classes. If CC causes a number of them to quit teaching, that, by itself, is plenty of reason to support CC.

Sadly, I don’t think they will quit. I suspect there is a whole lot of narcissism with a whole lot of LTC instructors and I suspect they get more of a charge having a captive audience that has paid them to bloviate.

Just end it and leave in place something like I outlined.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I'm not one to toss the baby out with the bathwater... DPS DOES audit the instructors - perhaps not as aggressively as some would like, but it IS done. Having said that...the shooting community is better served by doing what this forum (and others like it) does - further educate and inform fellow gun owners.
I know LEO's with 10-20 years experience that are STILL learning their craft - and others that stopped learning the day they left the academy. We all know LTC holders that are the same. Those that think the learning is over when they leave the classroom simply can't be helped - the ones that continue to seek knowledge and skill are who we should focus on, IMO.
That's one of the reasons I tend to initially try to inform/educate those that come on here with wrong understandings of the various laws. Those that accept and ask questions, cool. Those that wish to argue can go pound sand. We've ALL gained knowledge from the various discussions that've happened (with the exception of some of the "what if" scenarios that get presented - they usually devolve into changing parameters that soon have you chasing down every rabbit hole known to man - which is why I VERY seldom tend to participate.
The current fee structure for the LTC is very nominal, and while I wish it wasn't necessary, it's still invaluable for bypassing NICS and allowing us to cross state lines and carry in states with reciprocity agreements. Perfect? No - but a far sight better than the current alternatives available to us.
Will I continue to push towards a national CC law? You betcha - but I'm also pragmatic enough to realize that the reality is it's VERY unlikely to ever come about. We can whine and gnash our teeth about it all we want - or we can continue to work for change while we expand the options we CAN get. Me...I'm gonna take the options - I'd rather eat part of a steak than starve.

 

[V-Tach]

I suspect the ranks of Instructors will fall accordingly....there will always be bad ones and some good ones.

Our classes are still full, and we are getting fewer calls inquiring about the class.

Any Instructor/shop/range that relied on LTC for making ends meet isn't doing it right....

Those who are doing it right, recognize that new opportunities will arise because of the changes.......

Keep calling, emailing and sending letters.........we're almost there..........

 

[cygunner]

That’s how it’s done in CO. Go to the Sheriff’s Office, fill out the app, pay a small fee and get a trifold of relevant laws with your permit.

Colorado gets it right - for once.

 

[mongoose]

Colorado gets it right - for once.

Not so fast. You cannot carry in CO. Unless you are a resident of CO

 

[Hoji]

Not so fast. You cannot carry in CO. Unless you are a resident of CO

I believe this is incorrect. You can carry in Colorado with a carry permit from your state of residence, but not if you are a Texas resident and have a Florida permit

 

[mongoose]

I believe this is incorrect. You can carry in Colorado with a carry permit from your state of residence, but not if you are a Texas resident and have a Florida permit

You are correct....my mistake.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Not so fast. You cannot carry in CO. Unless you are a resident of CO

Incorrect.

Concealed carry is legal in Colorado for residents with a Colorado permit to carry a concealed weapon (CCW) and non-residents with a CCW permit from a state that Colorado honors. CCW permits can be issued to any resident at least 21 years old and not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. Concealed carry permits require a firearms training course that has been state-approved. Colorado doesn’t issue non-resident permits with the exception of members of the military permanently stationed in Colorado and their immediate family members that live in the state. In terms of reciprocity, Colorado will only honor resident CCW licenses from states with which it has a reciprocity agreement.

Colorado Concealed Carry Gun Laws | USCCA CCW Reciprocity Map

Last Updated 05/17/2021. Open Carry is legal in Colorado. Learn more about Colorado gun laws, CCW permits & view the CCW reciprocity map.

www.usconcealedcarry.com

It also appears CO now requires some type of course completion, that’s new since we left in 2016.

 

[mongoose]

As to your question, yes.

 

[Wolfwood]

I will say this in CO, Going on long walks in dense woods on the side of a mountain in the snow in April, appropriately armed, felt like freedom. Never felt the need to go to town.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

SB2247 By Senator Huffman is being rushed brought the system and is likely to pass. It has already passed the Senate and is Scheduled for House Committee review this week and will be on floor calendar by the end of the week.

This bill will remove the $40 fee for the LTC

However your fingerprinting fee of about $10 and the fee for the Texas LTC, plus the cost of 50 rounds of ammo will still put your cost at around $150 to still get your LTC

I have my Texas LTC already, so would renew. In which case it would be free with no extra cost.

I also have 8 LTC’s fro 8 other states. Illinois was the most expensive to obtain then several of them put together. Illinois Non-resident is $300 plus $100 for their LTC class. Renewal will be $300. I don’t have to pay for the renewal class, because I am an Illinois LTC instructor. Although that cost me $200. Why do I have a Illinois? Because Illinois and Minnesota will NOT recognize a Texas LTC. Illinois and Minnesota will honor a Illinois LTC.

 

[Hoji]

SB2247 By Senator Huffman is being rushed brought the system and is likely to pass. It has already passed the Senate and is Scheduled for House Committee review this week and will be on floor calendar by the end of the week.

This bill will remove the $40 fee for the LTC

However your fingerprinting fee of about $10 and the fee for the Texas LTC, plus the cost of 50 rounds of ammo will still put your cost at around $150 to still get your LTC

Abolishing the fee could kill the program. It has to, by law, be revenue neutral. They lowered it to $40 and waived fees to vets because it was producing a surplus. If it can not pay for itself, it could very well be eliminated by a technicality