Your solution to “mass shootings?”
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The problem is not simple, the solution will be even less so, but it starts at home.
There are many common threads between the mass majority of these killers and would-be killers.
Mental health issues are a common theme.
Being the target of bullies is a common theme.
Parents not being parents is a common theme.
People who KNEW the person had issues - including violent outburts - and didn't do anything is a common theme.
The bulk of these incidents has been perpetrated in the social media age - there is an undeniable connection here.
Our society has devolved to a point where we are told to accept mental perversion and illness as completely normal, acceptable behavior. We don't lock people away who need to be locked away. We have politicized education in one direction for 50 years. The family unit has been attacked and corrupted and far too many of these people come from broken homes - there is a connection there. Accountability is a thing of the past by and large.
Kids becoming bullies because its easy. My son has been experiencing it at school himself - so much so that he doesn't want to go to school most days because its relentless by more than one kid. He literally had other 11-12 year old kids telling him to *kill himself* because of the shoes he was wearing were not their approved brand. They told him to hang himself because he doesn't have a cell phone. They followed him into the bathroom telling him to kill himself because he wasn't wearing the same clothing as him. One kid took a tiktok video of him, calling him gay and posting it online.
I've talked to half a dozen other parents who are part of a facebook group for parents in our ISD - their kids are experiencing similar issues. I talked to a woman who has had kids in our district for 22 years - one of her oldest wound up taking his own life because of the relentless bullying he suffered from 4th thru 10th grade. They took him out of public schools far too late - the mental damage was done and into young adult hood he couldn't cope, and wound up shooting himself.
We're looking at private schools for our son, or homeschooling going forward. We're trying NOT to let our boy's mental health deteriorate to the point where he harms himself, or turns into one of these shooters. We're also getting him setup with a councelor, because he has told me he feels better talking to someone. Boy doesn't open up as well to us as he does to a third party.
The fact that kids at that age have devolved socially to a point they think its acceptable to harass other children and tell them to kill themselves - and I know they understand at that age what death and killing means - its beyond heart breaking. When we look at the influences - too many kids are getting access to adult-oriented media (not referring to porn here) and people have become so disgusting to one another that its common among certain groups to just randomly tell others to kill themselves. If you're on 4Chan or other sites like it - you see it a hundred times a day. They even have an abbreviation - KYS - because its become so commonplace for people to tell others to harm themselves. Some - maybe the majority, are "joking" - but there are plenty who are serious and they are part of the problem.
Social media - shit like Vine, TikTok, YouTube and Facebook have made people into egotistical, narcissistic shitheads being terrible people for "likes" and trying to 'go viral' to get some fame. Used to be shitty pranks, but its just become being overall shitty people and terrorizing innocent people. World Star is nothing but shitty people being shitty to innocent people for internet fame.
Parents not being parents. Broken homes. You could lump these together, but I look at them as similar but seperate problems. You can have kids with both parents in the home, but the parents are focused on being their childrens friends and not wanting to hurt their feelings, not wanting to set boundaries and pass down discipline and correct bad behaviors because they lack the mental and emotional fortitude and the proper skills to actually raise children. The enablement they provide coupled with the lack of guidance and discipline turns out entitled adult-sized children seriously deficient in some serious ways.
Broken homes - where one or both parents are missing is another common thread. Mom (or in very rare cases, Dad) can bust their ass, set boundaries, be disciplinarian and try their hardest - but the kids are not getting the dual input they need. IN most cases, young boys don't have a father around to show them how to grow into MEN. They don't have a proper masculine example of what it means to be a man, so you wind up with man-sized children once again seriously deficient in key developmental ways. One parent cannot do the job of both, they just can't.
In the case of the latest killer - he was living with his grandparents, who took on the role of enablers, because of tensions with his mother. Grandpa was a felon, so we can only assume generational shitbirdness is something the boy was raised around. I have seen nothing in the media talking about this boy's father - is dad in the picture?
We see what lack of fathers does - and its never good. In the ghettos of Chicago, young black men raised in single parent households are far too often turning to gangs for guidence in how to be men. They're adopting older gang bangers as the role of dad, because they didn't have one at home. Women simply don't know how to be men, anymore than men really know how to be women, so how can they teach a young boy how to be a man? Those fatherless boys wind up all too often engaged in violence because that's what they're raised in. How many shootings does Chiraq have in a given week? How many murders - and how many of those murders are gang related?
Of the school-shooters, how many of these kids grow up with Mom as the primary care giver, without a father in the picture? The only ones I know off the top of my head where the parents were in the picture are Columbine, Colorado, and Reynolds High in Troutdale Oregon, and the shooting at the junior high in Springfield, Oregon. In the later case - the killer did what seems to be a classic pattern - he killed his parents before going to school and shooting the place up. Those parents were trying to be his friends, not his parents. They KNEW he had mental issues. He was in counceling. One of the parents, IIRC, was a mental health professional. They got him into shooting and bought him the guns as a way to give him an outlet. Bad decision making there! Most of the other shooters have come from broken homes.
Of all the incidents - how many shooters were known to others for violent outbursts, mental health problems that were addressed adequately, or not addressed at all? In this latest incident here, I've read that his coworkers and classmates had all expressed concern because he talked of committing violence and was quick to anger and violent outbursts. He talked at his job of working just to save money to buy a few guns - the rifles in question. I read one response here saying he didn't work for the money to buy those rifles - but he did. Thats WHY he was working. He saved what he needed and abruptly quit a week ago. This was premeditated. Did the people who knew about his propensity for violence go to the authorities though? If they did - was it escalated properly? I think its safe to assume that in all cases, NO, it was not.
The killer in Parkland, Florida was known to local AND federal LE. There should've been an intervention far sooner. Should've been a prohibited person, but wasn't.
Sandy Hook's killer - another broken home, and another with inadequate treatment for known mental health issues. Killed mom, took her guns, then committed his evil.
Then there's the issue of the meds many of these killers are on, if they are treated. The meds themselves seem to amplify violent tendenceis. Not enough research has been done, or if it has it hasn't been disseminated widely enough and alternate therapies haven't been widely prescribed. I don't necessarily think that just because someone is prescribed drug X they should be temporarily or permenantly put on a no-guns list - but I think a case by case evaluation needs made and maybe if someone has expressed violent thoughts or behaviors before, and they're put on these meds - they should be institutionalized as well until they're better. If they don't get better, they don't get out.
The problem is not simple, the solution will be even less so, but it starts at home.
There are many common threads between the mass majority of these killers and would-be killers.
Mental health issues are a common theme.
Being the target of bullies is a common theme.
Parents not being parents is a common theme.
People who KNEW the person had issues - including violent outburts - and didn't do anything is a common theme.
The bulk of these incidents has been perpetrated in the social media age - there is an undeniable connection here.
Our society has devolved to a point where we are told to accept mental perversion and illness as completely normal, acceptable behavior. We don't lock people away who need to be locked away. We have politicized education in one direction for 50 years. The family unit has been attacked and corrupted and far too many of these people come from broken homes - there is a connection there. Accountability is a thing of the past by and large.
Kids becoming bullies because its easy. My son has been experiencing it at school himself - so much so that he doesn't want to go to school most days because its relentless by more than one kid. He literally had other 11-12 year old kids telling him to *kill himself* because of the shoes he was wearing were not their approved brand. They told him to hang himself because he doesn't have a cell phone. They followed him into the bathroom telling him to kill himself because he wasn't wearing the same clothing as him. One kid took a tiktok video of him, calling him gay and posting it online.
I've talked to half a dozen other parents who are part of a facebook group for parents in our ISD - their kids are experiencing similar issues. I talked to a woman who has had kids in our district for 22 years - one of her oldest wound up taking his own life because of the relentless bullying he suffered from 4th thru 10th grade. They took him out of public schools far too late - the mental damage was done and into young adult hood he couldn't cope, and wound up shooting himself.
We're looking at private schools for our son, or homeschooling going forward. We're trying NOT to let our boy's mental health deteriorate to the point where he harms himself, or turns into one of these shooters. We're also getting him setup with a councelor, because he has told me he feels better talking to someone. Boy doesn't open up as well to us as he does to a third party.
The fact that kids at that age have devolved socially to a point they think its acceptable to harass other children and tell them to kill themselves - and I know they understand at that age what death and killing means - its beyond heart breaking. When we look at the influences - too many kids are getting access to adult-oriented media (not referring to porn here) and people have become so disgusting to one another that its common among certain groups to just randomly tell others to kill themselves. If you're on 4Chan or other sites like it - you see it a hundred times a day. They even have an abbreviation - KYS - because its become so commonplace for people to tell others to harm themselves. Some - maybe the majority, are "joking" - but there are plenty who are serious and they are part of the problem.
Social media - shit like Vine, TikTok, YouTube and Facebook have made people into egotistical, narcissistic shitheads being terrible people for "likes" and trying to 'go viral' to get some fame. Used to be shitty pranks, but its just become being overall shitty people and terrorizing innocent people. World Star is nothing but shitty people being shitty to innocent people for internet fame.
Parents not being parents. Broken homes. You could lump these together, but I look at them as similar but seperate problems. You can have kids with both parents in the home, but the parents are focused on being their childrens friends and not wanting to hurt their feelings, not wanting to set boundaries and pass down discipline and correct bad behaviors because they lack the mental and emotional fortitude and the proper skills to actually raise children. The enablement they provide coupled with the lack of guidance and discipline turns out entitled adult-sized children seriously deficient in some serious ways.
Broken homes - where one or both parents are missing is another common thread. Mom (or in very rare cases, Dad) can bust their ass, set boundaries, be disciplinarian and try their hardest - but the kids are not getting the dual input they need. IN most cases, young boys don't have a father around to show them how to grow into MEN. They don't have a proper masculine example of what it means to be a man, so you wind up with man-sized children once again seriously deficient in key developmental ways. One parent cannot do the job of both, they just can't.
In the case of the latest killer - he was living with his grandparents, who took on the role of enablers, because of tensions with his mother. Grandpa was a felon, so we can only assume generational shitbirdness is something the boy was raised around. I have seen nothing in the media talking about this boy's father - is dad in the picture?
We see what lack of fathers does - and its never good. In the ghettos of Chicago, young black men raised in single parent households are far too often turning to gangs for guidence in how to be men. They're adopting older gang bangers as the role of dad, because they didn't have one at home. Women simply don't know how to be men, anymore than men really know how to be women, so how can they teach a young boy how to be a man? Those fatherless boys wind up all too often engaged in violence because that's what they're raised in. How many shootings does Chiraq have in a given week? How many murders - and how many of those murders are gang related?
Of the school-shooters, how many of these kids grow up with Mom as the primary care giver, without a father in the picture? The only ones I know off the top of my head where the parents were in the picture are Columbine, Colorado, and Reynolds High in Troutdale Oregon, and the shooting at the junior high in Springfield, Oregon. In the later case - the killer did what seems to be a classic pattern - he killed his parents before going to school and shooting the place up. Those parents were trying to be his friends, not his parents. They KNEW he had mental issues. He was in counceling. One of the parents, IIRC, was a mental health professional. They got him into shooting and bought him the guns as a way to give him an outlet. Bad decision making there! Most of the other shooters have come from broken homes.
Of all the incidents - how many shooters were known to others for violent outbursts, mental health problems that were addressed adequately, or not addressed at all? In this latest incident here, I've read that his coworkers and classmates had all expressed concern because he talked of committing violence and was quick to anger and violent outbursts. He talked at his job of working just to save money to buy a few guns - the rifles in question. I read one response here saying he didn't work for the money to buy those rifles - but he did. Thats WHY he was working. He saved what he needed and abruptly quit a week ago. This was premeditated. Did the people who knew about his propensity for violence go to the authorities though? If they did - was it escalated properly? I think its safe to assume that in all cases, NO, it was not.
The killer in Parkland, Florida was known to local AND federal LE. There should've been an intervention far sooner. Should've been a prohibited person, but wasn't.
Sandy Hook's killer - another broken home, and another with inadequate treatment for known mental health issues. Killed mom, took her guns, then committed his evil.
Then there's the issue of the meds many of these killers are on, if they are treated. The meds themselves seem to amplify violent tendenceis. Not enough research has been done, or if it has it hasn't been disseminated widely enough and alternate therapies haven't been widely prescribed. I don't necessarily think that just because someone is prescribed drug X they should be temporarily or permenantly put on a no-guns list - but I think a case by case evaluation needs made and maybe if someone has expressed violent thoughts or behaviors before, and they're put on these meds - they should be institutionalized as well until they're better. If they don't get better, they don't get out.
The institutions don't need to be the stereotypical dorm style hospital prison - but it should have walls, restricted access, and the people housed there should be given as normal a life as possible, while also being segregated from society to keep society safe. Should be a legal process, not just a stroke of a pen, and when someone is genuinely "better" they should be eased into society, including the restoration of their gun rights. But the process shouldn't be so damn drawn out that the person needing that kind of help is allowed time to carry out violent acts.
People in positions of authority need held accountable when they fail to act appropriately as well. If they KNOW the person has expressed violent intent, or has taken violent action and nothing gets done, the person who that buck stopped with gets to face some sort of charge as well. If the local cops keep getting called out, but shit isn't getting done - figure out if the cops are blowing it off, or if the DA refuses to advance the case, or whatever - but until authorities are held accountable for those failures nothing will change. How many people - school officials, police and FBI officials knew of issues with the Parkland killer, and yet nothing was done when it should have been?
Remember after 9-11 that whole "if you see something, say something" campaign? Yeah - that is a lot more applicable to violent outbursts or mental health issues than with some brown skinned dudes skulking about your local park. If parents know there's issues and they don't seek help - they're liable and should be held as such. Even if its just making a damn phone call to the police, or a crisis line in the case of older teens or adult children - put that onus on the people with the authority to take action.
Its really easy for people to see a tragedy and say "do something" - be it "ban guns" on the left or "arm teachers" on the right. Thats like slapping a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. You have to address the root cause. Its far easier to say "do something" and spend money on stuff like turning schools into fortresses, and making teachers into commandos than it is to make societal changes. Society takes generations to change. It requires every individual make effort, not just write a check or say words.
Easy to look back in history and see schools not fortified, that didn't have a fucking cop in every school, where kids even had guns in their lockers or in their cars and DIDN'T have these issues with mass killings and see that it was society that changed, not the presence of the gun. The gun is an inanimate object that by itself is not inherently dangerous. It takes someone picking the gun up and either thru negligence or malice, making it dangerous.
I know the admins don't like stuff getting religous, but maybe religion needs to be a part of the solution. "We" as a society have constantly pushed God and religion OUT of the public space, out of the schools, out of governmental organizations and events, out of the main stream media and entertainment - its easy to see that there has been a corresponding increase in just awful or downright evil crap that has filled that void. Where God is forbidden and cast out, the devil will find refuge and his handy work will soon be evident.
We need parents to be parents first, not friends to their children. We need fathers and mothers to be in the same home, and to have healthy relationships with one another to provide positive role models for children. We need to set and enforce boundaries with children and stop the entitlement mentality. We need accountability across the board for children and adults. We do need better mental health care in our country, and it shouldn't be stigmatized in the way it is for either children or adults. We need to remove those from society who would commit harm and actually keep them locked away until they're no longer a danger - that goes for crazies and criminals alike. We need less TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube and more time one-on-one with our kids outside fishing, throwing a ball, or sitting around the dining room table playing games, talking, and being a real part of the kids lives. We need parents communicating with teachers so they know what the kids are learning, what is expected of them, and when the kids are acting up or acting out.
We don't need political grand standing. We don't need more laws and more restrictions on guns. We don't need schools to become impenetrable fortresses. Should we have more security in schools? Yes. Give teachers the option to carry. Allow parents and visitors to legally carry - I shouldn't be risking a felony or A misdemeanor if I go to pick my kid up from school and I've got my pistol with me. All schools should have armed security professionals - they don't need to be fully sworn and empowered police. They can carry concealed to keep the illusion of normalcy for the kids.
If I were given the power to snap my fingers and make one change that would be permanent right now - I would snap away the Internet and all of its ills. That would go a long way toward healing some of the problems. Not all, no, there are too many - but without the Internet and the instant fame it can deliver it would go a ways to starting the healing process. No more Internet, no more forums, no more TikTok, no more Facebook, no more World Star, no more 4Chan. No more anonymous trolling or spreading of hate.
There is no one solution. There is no easy solution.
People in positions of authority need held accountable when they fail to act appropriately as well. If they KNOW the person has expressed violent intent, or has taken violent action and nothing gets done, the person who that buck stopped with gets to face some sort of charge as well. If the local cops keep getting called out, but shit isn't getting done - figure out if the cops are blowing it off, or if the DA refuses to advance the case, or whatever - but until authorities are held accountable for those failures nothing will change. How many people - school officials, police and FBI officials knew of issues with the Parkland killer, and yet nothing was done when it should have been?
Remember after 9-11 that whole "if you see something, say something" campaign? Yeah - that is a lot more applicable to violent outbursts or mental health issues than with some brown skinned dudes skulking about your local park. If parents know there's issues and they don't seek help - they're liable and should be held as such. Even if its just making a damn phone call to the police, or a crisis line in the case of older teens or adult children - put that onus on the people with the authority to take action.
Its really easy for people to see a tragedy and say "do something" - be it "ban guns" on the left or "arm teachers" on the right. Thats like slapping a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. You have to address the root cause. Its far easier to say "do something" and spend money on stuff like turning schools into fortresses, and making teachers into commandos than it is to make societal changes. Society takes generations to change. It requires every individual make effort, not just write a check or say words.
Easy to look back in history and see schools not fortified, that didn't have a fucking cop in every school, where kids even had guns in their lockers or in their cars and DIDN'T have these issues with mass killings and see that it was society that changed, not the presence of the gun. The gun is an inanimate object that by itself is not inherently dangerous. It takes someone picking the gun up and either thru negligence or malice, making it dangerous.
I know the admins don't like stuff getting religous, but maybe religion needs to be a part of the solution. "We" as a society have constantly pushed God and religion OUT of the public space, out of the schools, out of governmental organizations and events, out of the main stream media and entertainment - its easy to see that there has been a corresponding increase in just awful or downright evil crap that has filled that void. Where God is forbidden and cast out, the devil will find refuge and his handy work will soon be evident.
We need parents to be parents first, not friends to their children. We need fathers and mothers to be in the same home, and to have healthy relationships with one another to provide positive role models for children. We need to set and enforce boundaries with children and stop the entitlement mentality. We need accountability across the board for children and adults. We do need better mental health care in our country, and it shouldn't be stigmatized in the way it is for either children or adults. We need to remove those from society who would commit harm and actually keep them locked away until they're no longer a danger - that goes for crazies and criminals alike. We need less TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube and more time one-on-one with our kids outside fishing, throwing a ball, or sitting around the dining room table playing games, talking, and being a real part of the kids lives. We need parents communicating with teachers so they know what the kids are learning, what is expected of them, and when the kids are acting up or acting out.
We don't need political grand standing. We don't need more laws and more restrictions on guns. We don't need schools to become impenetrable fortresses. Should we have more security in schools? Yes. Give teachers the option to carry. Allow parents and visitors to legally carry - I shouldn't be risking a felony or A misdemeanor if I go to pick my kid up from school and I've got my pistol with me. All schools should have armed security professionals - they don't need to be fully sworn and empowered police. They can carry concealed to keep the illusion of normalcy for the kids.
If I were given the power to snap my fingers and make one change that would be permanent right now - I would snap away the Internet and all of its ills. That would go a long way toward healing some of the problems. Not all, no, there are too many - but without the Internet and the instant fame it can deliver it would go a ways to starting the healing process. No more Internet, no more forums, no more TikTok, no more Facebook, no more World Star, no more 4Chan. No more anonymous trolling or spreading of hate.
There is no one solution. There is no easy solution.
This one was not bullied. People that knew it said it was evil.
Preach brother
Bullying is done by a large percentage of people. It will never change. One thing parents and schools took away from kids is looking down on kids being kids and not over reacting when fights happen. A bully is someone who’s asking for help but he’s fucked up and can’t get help.
When I was a kid I got into plenty of fights. Some resulted in me apologizing to the other kid despite me winning, because it was stupid and I felt bad. Other times a friendship was formed.
In my early 20’s I worked for a middle school and one of my methods that to my surprise no one gave me shit over was having kids do push ups when they made fun of other kids. Lol I know...I’d probably be fired and arrested in this day and age but I told the kids they are free to say what they want but if they make fun of others we can both laugh together as you give me 20. Know what the kids hardly did almost not at all?
All this is just conversation. The shooter was mental and none of this applies to him.
Yeah, the way institutions like schools deal with bullying has changed - not for the better. When a child defends themselves against a bully - they're as likely or moreso to get in trouble.
My son knows how to fight. I've had to drill it into his head though that we don't use violence to respond to words - even though that's what could stop his issues dead in their tracks I'm sure - but the school would see his actions as a violent assault on the other child who was saying nasty words. Overreaction by the schools part tend to go in one direction - and no doubt they'd want assault charges and shit. I don't want my boy fucking up his future because of some shithead kid that is too chicken shit to throw hands, but using words to incessantly terrorize him and put the notion of self harm into his head. So our solution is to remove him from that environment and go to a private school. Tyring to schedule a tour with one here in town, a good Christian private school with 90 students from K-12, as opposed to putting him back into the public intermediate school with over a thousand kids in just 5th and 6th grade.
I like your solution - but as you pointed out - its rare. Nothing wrong with push ups as a punishment - builds muscle while building character. School admins would no doubt view that as abuse today though, because it hurts the self esteem of the kids saying stupid things.
Twisted little puke might have even been arrested in 2018 for planning a school shooting. The math works out, and it was released to the custody of its mother.
https://www.kens5.com/article/news/...argeting-a-uvalde-middle-school/273-548565605
Oh it transformed them. Much less outbursts and much more working together.
One kid had dad issues...he gave a speech in front of the class and it was just a story about his dad buying him a shotgun for hunting. Teachers were upset but the kids face turned to joy when I stepped in and clapped and said I enjoyed the story and was glad he got to spend time with his dad.
Over 50 years ago while in college I worked at a mental institution when they were true hell holes and before the big anti-psychotic drugs (thoraxzine and stelazine) came out. Everything you think about family and social media is not what is the root cause. These people are seriously crazy, their brains don't work right. With big time drugs there is help but they won't stay on them. Almost everyone institutionalized was put in by FAMILY. Unfortunately we need these institutions open again and the laws need to be changed such that we could legally commit these nut cases for as long as we need to. Right now, even parents can't get a sick child committed beyond a few days. And it wasn't just males, I thought the females were more dangerous and I had a master key for every ward. Always had two guards to protect me in every ward, especially the female wards. They had over two thousand patients.
I have not read all the pages, so excuse me if this is already been mentioned.
This will sound brutal, but not as brutal as what actually happened. Why do we glorify the culprit and plaster their picture all over the place.
Give the perpetrator of such evil acts, dead or alive, to the survivors and the families of the victims. Publicize what follows.
I'm convinced those who perpetrate atrocities such as these are in a state of UNREALITY where they don't comprehend death. They are so tortured, warped, depraved ( whatever term you care to use) they see the manner in which school shooters, etc, are thrust into the limelight as a positive "notoriety". That publicity is what they seek and what drives them to exchange death in order to achieve that notoriety (which they perceive as fame). It makes them feel powerful.
Instead, let them see others who chose a similar "deal with the devil" dragged through the street and hung in the town square in shame. It might jolt them partially back into reality.
This will sound brutal, but not as brutal as what actually happened. Why do we glorify the culprit and plaster their picture all over the place.
Give the perpetrator of such evil acts, dead or alive, to the survivors and the families of the victims. Publicize what follows.
I'm convinced those who perpetrate atrocities such as these are in a state of UNREALITY where they don't comprehend death. They are so tortured, warped, depraved ( whatever term you care to use) they see the manner in which school shooters, etc, are thrust into the limelight as a positive "notoriety". That publicity is what they seek and what drives them to exchange death in order to achieve that notoriety (which they perceive as fame). It makes them feel powerful.
Instead, let them see others who chose a similar "deal with the devil" dragged through the street and hung in the town square in shame. It might jolt them partially back into reality.
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