Zero guns allowed at work!!! What are your options??

[benenglish]

I work in Healthcare and our hospital has a pretty strict "no concealed firearm" policy on campus, not sure about the vehicle. I like the ability to pay my mortgage and bills so just follow their rules. We can, however, carry knives, so people may not be able to shoot you down a hospital corridor, but hand-to-hand combat is not prohibited! That being said, not sure what they would say about a back mounted machete :-)

If you work in a facility that prohibits "weapons" you might want to familiarize yourself self with the legal definition of that word in Texas. TGT member matefrio fought the good fight on that issue.

IIRC, a small pocket knife is not a weapon, a machete is a weapon, and the possession of an LTC and a firearm bears authoritatively on whether or not you can legally carry such a weapon.

But don't trust my faulty memory.

 

[Tank]

If you work in a facility that prohibits "weapons" you might want to familiarize yourself self with the legal definition of that word in Texas. TGT member matefrio fought the good fight on that issue.

IIRC, a small pocket knife is not a weapon, a machete is a weapon, and the possession of an LTC and a firearm bears authoritatively on whether or not you can legally carry such a weapon.

But don't trust my faulty memory.

Ya...agreed, I believe the law is specific to allowing a CHL holder to take it wherever they want with the exception of facilities with a posted regulatory prohibited sign with the ordinance policy on it. That being said, they fired the employees who would not take the CoViD vaccine, so I suspect they could let someone go who broke their internal policy as Texas is an "at will" workforce state. It doesn't bother me that much, I pray a situation never arises where there is such a need for a firearm.

 

[leVieux]

I work in Healthcare and our hospital has a pretty strict "no concealed firearm" policy on campus, not sure about the vehicle. I like the ability to pay my mortgage and bills so just follow their rules. We can, however, carry knives, so people may not be able to shoot you down a hospital corridor, but hand-to-hand combat is not prohibited! That being said, not sure what they would say about a back mounted machete :-)

I'm an old retired MD. I carried everywhere. I follow the old Texas meme of "I'd rather meet the Judge than the Undertaker!" Just be very polite and avoid likely trouble.

 

[Tank]

How ironic! Got the email to do our yearly regulatory training this morning and saw this on one of the quizzes.

 

[TXAZ]

How ironic! Got the email to do our yearly regulatory training this morning and saw this on one of the quizzes.

View attachment 340219

That’s fun and sad.
The greatest weapon is your mind.

I personally have a friend who, with only their mind, helped depose a corrupt president (of a country), never meeting the guy. And in the effort, encouraged members of a terrorist group to self-identify to their own regret.
Yea, I’ll take having a (“hospital defined”) weapon pointed at me versus guys like my friend.
Whoever put that test together was and is an idiot.

 

[toddnjoyce]

How ironic! Got the email to do our yearly regulatory training this morning and saw this on one of the quizzes.

View attachment 340219

Probably because licensed hospitals are a prohibited place according to TOC 46.03. No posting required, either. If posted w/ a 46.03 notice, then straight to felony charge.

 

[leVieux]

That’s fun and sad.
The greatest weapon is your mind.

I personally have a friend who, with only their mind, helped depose a corrupt president (of a country), never meeting the guy. And in the effort, encouraged members of a terrorist group to self-identify to their own regret.
Yea, I’ll take having a (“hospital defined”) weapon pointed at me versus guys like my friend.
Whoever put that test together was and is an idiot.

Idiots abound these days. I try to tell everyone that in this era of CONSTANT MEDIA LIES, A person just can’t be sure that what they “know” is accurate.

 

[leVieux]

Probably because licensed hospitals are a prohibited place according to TOC 46.03. No posting required, either. If posted w/ a 46.03 notice, then straight to felony charge.

Outrageous!

Letgislators kowtow to industry lawyer/lobbyists while BETRAYING constituents, Constitutions, and their own oaths of office !

Sorry situation !

And this actually endangers innocents !

leVieux

 

[Sasquatch]

There's a few other subjects covered - but a good part of this very long discussion covers this very subject, and Alex aka The Suited Shootist gives a Cliff's Notes version of his own tale, where he lost his six-figure job after getting searched at work.



Yes, its over 3 hours long. But its full of good info if you have the time to listen.

 

[leVieux]

We must decide. A “six-figure” job where the employer searches you isn’t worth a shit to begin with, anyway !

 

[Sasquatch]

We must decide. A “six-figure” job where the employer searches you isn’t worth a shit to begin with, anyway !

Cliff's Notes on that one - when he began working there - gun culture was not taboo. He says that a co-worker openly used to clean suppressors at his desk, guys had gun paraphrenalia like ball caps / key chains / etc and had no problems displaying it. Then the company gets bought out by some outsiders. Big cultural shift. Suddenly anything about "weapons" is taboo. He decides to opt for off-body carry, figuring he wouldn't be searched (assuming he had it in his brief case or a bag - this guy is in sales) - he figured wrong. I think someone said something, which got overheard by the wrong person. Search happens. They find his gun. He's shitcanned and escorted out (by security) within a couple hours of the search. After his termination, zero-tolerance is reiterated, and even pocket knives are verboten.

IIRC, Alex / Suited Shootist lives in the Houston area. Hell, he could be a member here, but if he is he doesn't make it known, or hasn't in any of his videos, nor has any member here claimed to be him.

 

[Axxe55]

Cliff's Notes on that one - when he began working there - gun culture was not taboo. He says that a co-worker openly used to clean suppressors at his desk, guys had gun paraphrenalia like ball caps / key chains / etc and had no problems displaying it. Then the company gets bought out by some outsiders. Big cultural shift. Suddenly anything about "weapons" is taboo. He decides to opt for off-body carry, figuring he wouldn't be searched (assuming he had it in his brief case or a bag - this guy is in sales) - he figured wrong. I think someone said something, which got overheard by the wrong person. Search happens. They find his gun. He's shitcanned and escorted out (by security) within a couple hours of the search. After his termination, zero-tolerance is reiterated, and even pocket knives are verboten.

IIRC, Alex / Suited Shootist lives in the Houston area. Hell, he could be a member here, but if he is he doesn't make it known, or hasn't in any of his videos, nor has any member here claimed to be him.

I had a similar incident happen at one company I worked for in the past. Someone snitched or said something to someone and the companies security showed up in my office, wanting to search my locked truck. I told them, "Get a search warrant." They called the sheriff's department and they sent out a deputy. Deputy informed them that he could not force me to let them search my truck. Well the security guy said he would just break into my truck! Deputy informed them if they did, they would be in cuffs, charged with breaking and entering, and would be going to jail.

They didn't get to seach my truck!

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I had a similar incident happen at one company I worked for in the past. Someone snitched or said something to someone and the companies security showed up in my office, wanting to search my locked truck. I told them, "Get a search warrant." They called the sheriff's department and they sent out a deputy. Deputy informed them that he could not force me to let them search my truck. Well the security guy said he would just break into my truck! Deputy informed them if they did, they would be in cuffs, charged with breaking and entering, and would be going to jail.

They didn't get to seach my truck!

Did they fire you?

 

[Axxe55]

Did they fire you?

They tried until I got my lawyer involved, and he explained how the lawsuit would happen!

 

[ZX9RCAM]

They tried until I got my lawyer involved, and he explained how the lawsuit would happen!

Ha!

I'd expect them to use a different reason.

 

[Sasquatch]

I had a similar incident happen at one company I worked for in the past. Someone snitched or said something to someone and the companies security showed up in my office, wanting to search my locked truck. I told them, "Get a search warrant." They called the sheriff's department and they sent out a deputy. Deputy informed them that he could not force me to let them search my truck. Well the security guy said he would just break into my truck! Deputy informed them if they did, they would be in cuffs, charged with breaking and entering, and would be going to jail.

They didn't get to seach my truck!

All too often security monkies don't know their place, their actual legal boundaries, and figure "its private property" and "you agreed to search as a condition of employment" - the later is possibly correct (maybe that policy was not in place when you were hired, or not part of your contract, maybe it was) but the first part doesn't matter.

The issue then becomes - are you valuable enough to the company to drop the subject, or are you an easily replaced cog? Will it cost them more to fire you and then have to hire / train a replacement and deal with the increased work load (and possible overtime payments) until said replacement is up to speed? Will they lose clients/customers over your termination? Is it the hill they want to die on?

In my own scenario, my boss was complaining to another coworker - a coworker who I will add was *not* my supervisor, or in a supervisory role. We were all friendly - it was literally a family atmosphere here. He was bitching about me carrying. He was looking only at the "what if he shoot someone, I'm going to get sued and maybe lose everything" aspect and had not even given thought to the "what if he gets hurt by someone he could've stopped if he was armed" aspect, which was then followed up with the "don't you think he'll sue you for stopping him from doing the one thing that most likely would've prevented him from getting hurt in the first place?" aspect.

I went all over the area - nice areas, ghetto ass shithole areas. Dealt with random strangers all day, every day. Dealt with random ass members of the public including wacked out crazies, homeless nutters (who had been known to occasionally shoot or stab people at random - downtown Portland is literally a shithole because of them) and then the occasional pissed off or crazy customer, plus road ragers. I've had people try to start fights and arguments with me because I was blocking an intersection to clear a disabled or wrecked car, like, hello you crazy bitch, broke down car blocking traffic. Big red fucking truck with red flashing lights all over is a clue most others get that shit is about to get better, if you fucking wait a few damn minutes... but I digress.

In the end, my friend / coworker got him to see that it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario and that IF I found myself in a bad situation where someone was hurt or killed, he was likely fucked and getting sued either way - either by the other party, or by me / my wife if I died. He dropped the issue and never spoke about it again, and I continued to carry. Part of that was just because of the close relationship we all had, part of it was because I was damned good at my job - which wasn't just running a truck, it was answering the phones and acting as the manager (never formally got that title, only "senior tow operator") when he was off, or when he'd go out of town. I literally ran the company when he was away.

It would've taken him some time to hire a replacement and get them trained up - and trust them enough not to **** it up. Its not that I was irreplaceable by any means, but when you're new to towing, your first six months are your most dangerous - from you getting hurt by your own inexperience, or from your own stupidity. You're also going to cause the most damage (usually) to the vehicles under your care during that period. That all comes with costs. And then there was the building of trust - dude wouldn't have been taking regular long weekends to his coastal cabin for probably six to twelve months if he had to replace me. I was dependable, I took great care of our clients and customers, I didn't need baby sat, and honestly, I wasn't being paid enough for all the misc. shit I did besides just running a truck, and someone else probably would've demanded more $$$.

I know some guys from Intel (I used to work there when I was a lot younger) and a one of their coworkers (long after I left) got shitcanned and escorted out by security when he was discovered with a pistol at work. It was one of those "it fell out of his pants in the shitter" moments. Someone heard, peeked under the stall, then went full Karen to their boss, who went full Karen to their boss, who called in security and HR... another guy losing a six figure income and his retirement because they found out about his gun. Wasn't a young guy either - dude had been there pushing 20 years. His saving grace probably was his stock options.

When my old boss at Intel was fired (not for a gun, but for spending money his bosses bosses didn't like on our group) - he'd been with Intel for 18 or 19 years, and his stock portfiolio was worth 7 figures because of all the stock splits and increase in share prices. I ran into him by happen stance years later - he told me that he held the stock too long, lost a LOT in the tech bubble crash. He had enough by selling most of his Intel stock to pay for his kids college, but his dreams of being able to hop a jet and have dinner in San Francisco or Los Angeles or Las Vegas with his wife when they retired went out the window. He did land an arguably better job, with a smaller company after leaving big blue, but the benefits weren't as robust. He was also lucky to have something like 40 acres of super desireable farm on one of the well known hills (even though it was technically a mountain, it was really just a big hill) outside town with one hell of a view. If he sold that spread during COVID he probably would've had 5 or 10 million in the bank. Phil Knight (Nike founder) was his neighbor just down the road, to give an idea of the neighborhood.

Losing a high paying job has got to suck, no matter the reason. Getting another depends of course on your abilities, if you get black balled by your old bosses for breaking policy (if they said you were fired for violating a no-weapons policy, good luck getting another job most places), or if you're able to start your own business as a competitor.

When I left my towing job and became co-owner of a roadside assistance business it was just my partners and I. We grew, and when we started hiring employees, I took on the HR responsibilities. I wrote 100% of the company manual, all the training documentation, etc. I specifically crafted our policy to allow lawful carry, while making lawyers / insurance agents happy. Without digging thur my files to find the document, IIRC the wording was something like "the unlawful carrying of deadly or dangerous weapons while on duty or in company uniform, or on company property or in a company vehicle is prohibited." - I specifically threw in the phrase "the unlawful carrying" because it *sounds* like it prohibits carry as a blanket to those not really thinking about it, while specifically allowing legal carry. I also know that at least one employee carried (I made his holster...) and I told him to keep it concealed unless it absolutely had to come out.

I mainly didn't want to have to field complaints by the Karens at AAA - who were decidedly anti-gun. Their offices had "No Guns or Knives Allowed on This Property" at every door. Yes, I ignored the shit out of those signs, because back then such signs had no force of law in Oregon (they changed that a few months after I moved the family to Texas) and AAA's HQ was in downtown Portland just a few blocks from the "crime train" - Portland's light rail train known as much for crazies stabbing / shooting / trying to rape people as it was for jamming you next to someone with terrible body odor or screaming children if you had to ride it.

I certainly wasn't going to leave my gun in the truck - which would've necessitated removing it from its holster in their open parking lot anyway, which was more likely to be seen and freak people out, and smash & grab thefts are so common there the police don't even come out if you call them, they take a report by phone and give you a case number for it so you can make an insurance claim. We had $1000 deductibles on our comprehensive insurance anyway, so I wasn't going to be making a claim for a stolen Glock or M&P. And even if the gun was worth the claim - they might not have paid out since a personal firearm wasn't company property.

 

[joking]

My big boss is a pro 2A guy so we used to conceal carry at work for years. Until some "bright mind" decided to turn the maintenance room into their personal amomer space. Cleaning guns after range trip, practicing draw and dry fire. Email blast and new policy posted up instantly "No Firearms inside the building."

 

[Sasquatch]

My big boss is a pro 2A guy so we used to conceal carry at work for years. Until some "bright mind" decided to turn the maintenance room into their personal amomer space. Cleaning guns after range trip, practicing draw and dry fire. Email blast and new policy posted up instantly "No Firearms inside the building."

Oof, what a dumbass. He ruined a good thing for everyone.

 

[rotor]

I legally carry a concealed handgun when I leave the house. Except for those half a dozen or so times a year that I go to the Navy base for a doctor's appointment, to pick up medications or have lab work done. At the main gate they do the rare contraband search or ask you randomly if you have any "contraband". I will not lie to them, so on those occasions I leave the pistol and ammo home. It galls the heck out of me to be weaponless for the 50 mile round trip. I remember clearly back in the early '70s they sold guns and ammo at the base NEX/PX. I used to keep my guns in the trunk of my car and in a locker in the barracks. Most of us did and whether legal or not it was never a big deal, never an issue.

I remember when some bad characters killed military recruiters a while back. My S-i-L was a Navy recruiter in the Pacific Northwest. They were told specifically that they were not allowed to carry a concealed weapon while in uniform. His recruiting office was in a strip mall in a big city. I gave him a S&W Shield 9mm. He carried it. BFYTW

Let's remember too who it is that usually stops a mass shooting at a military base (Fort Hood, NAS Pensacola...). It's civilian cops. But only after military people are killed on those gun free bases.

What a farce and a tragedy that military folks stateside, on their bases are a more helpless target than a civilian at a shopping mall.

You can still buy firearms at the base exchange.

 

[Alpha.Geek]

My company policy states "company leased" vehicles in the handbook, however a lease is long-term, and I get "rentals", so legally they are different.

I work for a horrible corporation, one of the largest players in it's industry, and if I had to find a new job, it'd be LITERALLY 1/5-1/2 the work for more than the same pay (+50% more, but I might have to not work from home 95% of the time). I took a pay hit last year going from salary to hourly, and it wasl like -14.2% off the top. I got no raise last year, although I am known even by my team as a top-performer, and it would take 3 specialized people to replace me (or years of training EACH), so if I got let-go, it'd be a WIN-WIN-WIN...

I do recall seeing a video of a guy that got fired for carrying "in work", even though others did, with "the can't happen to me" attitude, and tried to find it, but can't.