30.06 30.07 question

[Renegade]

The trespass of a PO for weapons is prohibited

That is only for 30.05, no such protection for 06/07.

(i) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an official duty while carrying the weapon.

 

[Renegade]

many laws that SCOTUS has struck down are still on the books.

Longest running one I knew of was Roe, which ironically is now back active.

But this one (b) was struck down by Prouse in 1979:

And this one was struck down in Lawrence in 2003:

 

[justmax]

OK Folks, I have read this whole thread waiting for a certain point to be brought up but haxent, so here I go...

20-25 years ago I watched a case that defined the word "licence" as "permission to"...whatever, not the actual card. Therefore, the carrying of the card should be irrelevant.

The case was a DUI/DWI that had several interesting twists. I got to watch this as most of the times I was in that court they we a case or two ahead of me.

 

[Renegade]

20-25 years ago I watched a case that defined the word "licence" as "permission to"...whatever, not the actual card. Therefore, the carrying of the card should be irrelevant.

As previously posted, the law says you must be carrying the license, not that you be licensed.

 

[leVieux]

I've seen dozens. It's not as though property owners actually bother to understand the law, and the sign companies that make the signs are mostly out of state and don't get it either (I've even seen ones that try to combine the wording of .06 and .07, which invalidates both).

Most that post the signs seem to assume .06 covers all carry. As a sign designer, I can think of at least six clients who only requested .06 but stated in their emails that they didn't want firearms allowed on the property. No, I didn't volunteer any helpful info to correct their assumptions.

<>

”It's not as though property owners actually bother to understand the law”

Amen !

Having asked several exactly what their signs mean, none ever get it exactly correctly !

However, not a single one I’ve ever spoken with seemed to even WANT to know. . . . .

leVieux
.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Simple solution is to no enter a business with signage regarding firearms unless it reads all are welcomed. I do it everyday and miss out on nothing.

 

[ScottDLS]

Simple solution is to no enter a business with signage regarding firearms unless it reads all are welcomed. I do it everyday and miss out on nothing.

Alternatively you can just ignore the signs anywhere that you know is not a prohibited location under 46.03.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Alternatively you can just ignore the signs anywhere that you know is not a prohibited location under 46.03.

Well you can chance that one.

 

[ScottDLS]

Well you can chance that one.

You can beat the rap, but not the "ride" for a no-jail $200 ticket class C misdemeanor. Oh and I forgot, I'm a Volunteer Emergency Responder, so I have a "defense".

 

[toddnjoyce]

Well you can chance that one.

Calculated risk; DPS data shows there’s been a total of seven arrests for 30.06 violations since 2017, of which there were zero convictions. For me, a .05/.06/.07 is meaningless due to the defenses to prosecution that exist, but I also know a business can ask me to leave, but they can’t detain me while waiting for a LEO to arrive.

Hell, 30.06 & .07 both give a defense to prosecution if you’re given oral notice to leave and promptly do so that applies to all license holders in addition to the vaguely defined “volunteer emergency services perosnnel defense. That’s two get out of jail free cards for a license holder.

.05 provides the LTC concealed carry defense, too so yes, they can be safely ignored up until you’re asked to leave, fail to do so, then voluntarily hang around for the cop to show up.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Calculated risk; DPS data shows there’s been a total of seven arrests for 30.06 violations since 2017, of which there were zero convictions. For me, a .05/.06/.07 is meaningless due to the defenses to prosecution that exist, but I also know a business can ask me to leave, but they can’t detain me while waiting for a LEO to arrive.

Hell, 30.06 & .07 both give a defense to prosecution if you’re given oral notice to leave and promptly do so that applies to all license holders in addition to the vaguely defined “volunteer emergency services perosnnel defense. That’s two get out of jail free cards for a license holder.

.05 provides the LTC concealed carry defense, too so yes, they can be safely ignored up until you’re asked to leave, fail to do so, then voluntarily hang around for the cop to show up.

Cool but I've never followed collected stst numbers for any reason.

 

[benenglish]

If there is only a 30.06 sign, then by law you can open carry with an LTC. But rest assured, when they will ask you to leave, you must. Or rather, should.

Since this necro thread has popped up to the top again, I thought I'd make an observation.

I can think of at least one case where .06 might be posted but open carry is welcome - shooting ranges. Someone running a range has no problem with people being in possession of firearms in their business. However, they might want to keep track of where those guns are, especially when an RSO calls a range cold.

I don't think I'd set range SOPs like that but I can see how someone else might.

 

[cycleguy2300]

You can beat the rap, but not the "ride" for a no-jail $200 ticket class C misdemeanor. Oh and I forgot, I'm a Volunteer Emergency Responder, so I have a "defense".

Volunteer/reserve are specifically excluded from the first responder carry law. Here is the relevant light edited texts, definitions first:

PC 46.01
(20) "First responder" means a public safety employee whose duties include responding rapidly to an emergency. The term includes fire protection personnel as defined by Section 419.021, Government Code, and emergency medical services personnel as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code.
The term does not include:
(A) volunteer emergency services personnel;
(B) an emergency medical services volunteer, as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code;



Texas Govt Vode 411.184

Training Course For Certain First Responders

a) In this section, "first responder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01, Penal Code. (b) The director by rule shall establish minimum standards for an initial training course that a first responder who is a license holder and who is employed or supervised by a county or municipality to which Chapter 179, Local Government Code, applies may complete to receive a certification of completion from the department under this section. The training course must: (1) be administered by a qualified handgun instructor; (2) include not more than 40 hours of instruction; (3) provide classroom training in: (A) self-defense; (B) de-escalation techniques; (C) tactical thinking relating to cover for and concealment of the license holder; (D) methods to conceal a handgun and methods to ensure the secure carrying of a concealed handgun; (E) the use of restraint holsters and methods to ensure the secure carrying of an openly carried handgun; and (F) consequences of improper use of a handgun; (4) provide field instruction in the use of handguns, including: (A) instinctive or reactive shooting; (B) tactical shooting; (C) shooting while moving; and (D) shooting in low light conditions; (5) require physical demonstrations of proficiency in techniques learned in training; and (6) provide procedures for securing and storing a handgun if the first responder, while on duty, is required to enter a location where carrying the handgun is prohibited by federal law or otherwise. (c) The department by rule shall establish minimum standards for an annual continuing education course that is administered by a qualified handgun instructor and includes not more than 10 hours of instruction for a person who has completed the initial training course described by Subsection (b). (d) The department shall issue a certificate of completion to a first responder who is a license holder and who completes the initial training course under Subsection (b) or the continuing education course under Subsection (c), as applicable. A certificate of completion expires on the first anniversary of issuance. (e) A first responder is responsible for paying to the course provider the costs of a training course under this section. (f) The director by rule shall approve devices to enable a first responder to secure and store a handgun if the first responder, while on duty, is required to enter a location where carrying the handgun is prohibited by federal law or otherwise.

Concealed is concealed...

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[ScottDLS]

Volunteer/reserve are specifically excluded from the first responder carry law. Here is the relevant light edited texts, definitions first:

PC 46.01
(20) "First responder" means a public safety employee whose duties include responding rapidly to an emergency. The term includes fire protection personnel as defined by Section 419.021, Government Code, and emergency medical services personnel as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code.
The term does not include:
(A) volunteer emergency services personnel;
(B) an emergency medical services volunteer, as defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code;



Texas Govt Vode 411.184

Training Course For Certain First Responders

a) In this section, "first responder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01, Penal Code. (b) The director by rule shall establish minimum standards for an initial training course that a first responder who is a license holder and who is employed or supervised by a county or municipality to which Chapter 179, Local Government Code, applies may complete to receive a certification of completion from the department under this section. The training course must: (1) be administered by a qualified handgun instructor; (2) include not more than 40 hours of instruction; (3) provide classroom training in: (A) self-defense; (B) de-escalation techniques; (C) tactical thinking relating to cover for and concealment of the license holder; (D) methods to conceal a handgun and methods to ensure the secure carrying of a concealed handgun; (E) the use of restraint holsters and methods to ensure the secure carrying of an openly carried handgun; and (F) consequences of improper use of a handgun; (4) provide field instruction in the use of handguns, including: (A) instinctive or reactive shooting; (B) tactical shooting; (C) shooting while moving; and (D) shooting in low light conditions; (5) require physical demonstrations of proficiency in techniques learned in training; and (6) provide procedures for securing and storing a handgun if the first responder, while on duty, is required to enter a location where carrying the handgun is prohibited by federal law or otherwise. (c) The department by rule shall establish minimum standards for an annual continuing education course that is administered by a qualified handgun instructor and includes not more than 10 hours of instruction for a person who has completed the initial training course described by Subsection (b). (d) The department shall issue a certificate of completion to a first responder who is a license holder and who completes the initial training course under Subsection (b) or the continuing education course under Subsection (c), as applicable. A certificate of completion expires on the first anniversary of issuance. (e) A first responder is responsible for paying to the course provider the costs of a training course under this section. (f) The director by rule shall approve devices to enable a first responder to secure and store a handgun if the first responder, while on duty, is required to enter a location where carrying the handgun is prohibited by federal law or otherwise.

Concealed is concealed...

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Interesting cite, but unrelated to my point. A volunteer emergency response person can't be prosecuted under the carry provisions of 30.06, 7

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
...
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.

Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN.
LTC-16 Page 82 of 181
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.
...
(g) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.