Steve_In_29
Semper Fi
This is a re-edited version of a thread I posted on CalGuns. Here is a link to my original thread there if anyone wants to peruse the whole discussion. In it I go a bit more in depth on the ammo.
Several years ago I bought a Mossberg .410 for my wife (4'10"/95lbs) to use but I gotta tell you I am really liking it myself.
It is their Model 505 Youth (12"LOP/20" barrel/4+1). The small LOP on it is almost like a pistol grip but with the added bonus of my still being able to shoulder (barely) the weapon and to use a rifle butt cuff to hold an extra 9 rounds (see last picture).
Load was Remington's 3" HD Ultimate Home Defense round. I got them from BassPro for $11ish for a box of 15rds IIRC. No recoil to speak of and 5 000 Buck pellets moving out at 1125fps. It's like emptying a 5 round .38 snubby into the bad guy with every pull of the trigger.
Here are some pictures of how it preformed at 15 yards. The first is a pattern on cardboard while the other two are what it did to some old 3/4" plywood. The Leatherman handle is 3.5" long for perspective.
The group of holes at the lower right is all five 000Buck pellets and the hole to the upper left is where the wad impacted. So that is 5 .36 caliber pellets in roughly a 1.5" group entering a bad guy at one time.
Plywood from front.
Plywood from rear.
Mossberg used to make several other models in .410 that would work nicely for HD as well but it appears they have discontinued the 20" versions (both pistol grip and full stocked) as well as the 18.5" pistol grip version of their .410s. Though you might find some on the used market.
The Model 500E Cruiser (pistol grip/20" barrel/7+1rds)
Model 500 Persuader 20"/7+1rds
Both were also available in 18.5" barrel versions with 5+1 capacity.
Browning makes a version of their BPS in a HD configuration but interestingly enough only in .410. It makes an excellent gun for a leftie as it's bottom feed and eject. Though it's QUITE a bit more expensive ($800ish) then the Mossberg ($299 when I bought hers). For those of you wanting a Remington in .410 you will need to step up to the Wingmaster ($800ish) as they don't offer it in the Express line.
As far as .410 ammo goes, I have found the HD rounds are roughly the same price as their 12/20G brethren and the birdshot is on par with Hi-Brass loads (all .410 is Hi-Brass) for the 12/20 as well.
To help offset the ammo cost a bit, with the almost non-existent recoil of the .410 there is a little less need of practice as you aren't trying to learn to deal with the much greater recoil forces involved with 12/20G. NOT saying there is no need for practice, just that it's easier to master the smaller caliber.
The 3" .410 HD load has 5 pellets of 000 buck vs the 9 smaller pellets of 00 buck in your average low recoil 2 3/4" 12G load. Both move out in the 1100-1300 fps range depending on the exact round. Winchester makes a 5 pellet 000 buck/1300fps load for the .410. I was corrected on this and it's actually their 2.5" 3 pellet load that hits 1300fps while the 5 pellet load is 1135fps.
Here is a comparison of the weight the two rounds throw.
.410: 000 buck = a .36" pellet weighing 70.0gr per pellet x 5 = 350.0gr
12G: 00 buck = a .33" pellet weighing 53.8gr per pellet x 9 = 484.2gr
It seems a person going with the .410 doesn't give up as much as some would believe. Especially when compared against the "Low Recoil" buckshot loads many 12G shooters go with to help tame the recoil.
There is also a #4 buckshot load in .410 as well. Though I don't see it having as much purpose in the .410 as it does in the larger gauges. In the larger gauges #4 buck fills a need to provide denser pattern coverage but in .410 the spread of the buckshot isn't as big a concern, since the pellets leave the barrel single-file instead of side-by-side, which by its very nature results in a tighter pattern down range.
Here are the results of #4 Buck on cardboard as well as the same piece of 3/4" plywood from the 000 Buck test. This was a 3" shell and the load consisted of 9 #4 Buck pellets at 1100FPS.
I don't like the way they preformed as much as I do the 000 Buck. The spread was too wide and they didn't seem to plow through the board with the same authority. In my opinion (take it for what you paid for it) the #4 Buck isn't as valid a HD option in the .410 as it is in the 12G.
This is the pattern on cardboard and like the last time the Leatherman handle is 3" long for scale.
Here is the affect on the 3/4" plywood from the front
and from the rear.
I recently bought an 18.5" barrel and 5+1 mag tube from Mossberg to make her shotgun a little handier and up the capacity. Cost was $102 shipped including a new mag spring. Here it is installed to replace the original 20" barrel and 4+1 mag and comparing the size between my Mossberg 505 .410 18.5" barrel, Escort 20G Youth with 20" barrel and ATI 12G with 18.5" barrel. The tiles are 12" square for reference.
To conclude I am NOT saying the .410 is the equal of the 12/20G, merely that is is more then adequate for the job of a close confines HD situation.
Several years ago I bought a Mossberg .410 for my wife (4'10"/95lbs) to use but I gotta tell you I am really liking it myself.
It is their Model 505 Youth (12"LOP/20" barrel/4+1). The small LOP on it is almost like a pistol grip but with the added bonus of my still being able to shoulder (barely) the weapon and to use a rifle butt cuff to hold an extra 9 rounds (see last picture).
Load was Remington's 3" HD Ultimate Home Defense round. I got them from BassPro for $11ish for a box of 15rds IIRC. No recoil to speak of and 5 000 Buck pellets moving out at 1125fps. It's like emptying a 5 round .38 snubby into the bad guy with every pull of the trigger.
Here are some pictures of how it preformed at 15 yards. The first is a pattern on cardboard while the other two are what it did to some old 3/4" plywood. The Leatherman handle is 3.5" long for perspective.
The group of holes at the lower right is all five 000Buck pellets and the hole to the upper left is where the wad impacted. So that is 5 .36 caliber pellets in roughly a 1.5" group entering a bad guy at one time.
Plywood from front.
Plywood from rear.
Mossberg used to make several other models in .410 that would work nicely for HD as well but it appears they have discontinued the 20" versions (both pistol grip and full stocked) as well as the 18.5" pistol grip version of their .410s. Though you might find some on the used market.
The Model 500E Cruiser (pistol grip/20" barrel/7+1rds)
Model 500 Persuader 20"/7+1rds
Both were also available in 18.5" barrel versions with 5+1 capacity.
Browning makes a version of their BPS in a HD configuration but interestingly enough only in .410. It makes an excellent gun for a leftie as it's bottom feed and eject. Though it's QUITE a bit more expensive ($800ish) then the Mossberg ($299 when I bought hers). For those of you wanting a Remington in .410 you will need to step up to the Wingmaster ($800ish) as they don't offer it in the Express line.
As far as .410 ammo goes, I have found the HD rounds are roughly the same price as their 12/20G brethren and the birdshot is on par with Hi-Brass loads (all .410 is Hi-Brass) for the 12/20 as well.
To help offset the ammo cost a bit, with the almost non-existent recoil of the .410 there is a little less need of practice as you aren't trying to learn to deal with the much greater recoil forces involved with 12/20G. NOT saying there is no need for practice, just that it's easier to master the smaller caliber.
The 3" .410 HD load has 5 pellets of 000 buck vs the 9 smaller pellets of 00 buck in your average low recoil 2 3/4" 12G load. Both move out in the 1100-1300 fps range depending on the exact round. Winchester makes a 5 pellet 000 buck/1300fps load for the .410. I was corrected on this and it's actually their 2.5" 3 pellet load that hits 1300fps while the 5 pellet load is 1135fps.
Here is a comparison of the weight the two rounds throw.
.410: 000 buck = a .36" pellet weighing 70.0gr per pellet x 5 = 350.0gr
12G: 00 buck = a .33" pellet weighing 53.8gr per pellet x 9 = 484.2gr
It seems a person going with the .410 doesn't give up as much as some would believe. Especially when compared against the "Low Recoil" buckshot loads many 12G shooters go with to help tame the recoil.
There is also a #4 buckshot load in .410 as well. Though I don't see it having as much purpose in the .410 as it does in the larger gauges. In the larger gauges #4 buck fills a need to provide denser pattern coverage but in .410 the spread of the buckshot isn't as big a concern, since the pellets leave the barrel single-file instead of side-by-side, which by its very nature results in a tighter pattern down range.
Here are the results of #4 Buck on cardboard as well as the same piece of 3/4" plywood from the 000 Buck test. This was a 3" shell and the load consisted of 9 #4 Buck pellets at 1100FPS.
I don't like the way they preformed as much as I do the 000 Buck. The spread was too wide and they didn't seem to plow through the board with the same authority. In my opinion (take it for what you paid for it) the #4 Buck isn't as valid a HD option in the .410 as it is in the 12G.
This is the pattern on cardboard and like the last time the Leatherman handle is 3" long for scale.
Here is the affect on the 3/4" plywood from the front
and from the rear.
I recently bought an 18.5" barrel and 5+1 mag tube from Mossberg to make her shotgun a little handier and up the capacity. Cost was $102 shipped including a new mag spring. Here it is installed to replace the original 20" barrel and 4+1 mag and comparing the size between my Mossberg 505 .410 18.5" barrel, Escort 20G Youth with 20" barrel and ATI 12G with 18.5" barrel. The tiles are 12" square for reference.
To conclude I am NOT saying the .410 is the equal of the 12/20G, merely that is is more then adequate for the job of a close confines HD situation.
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