Assisted suicide expands...

[benenglish]

...wherever it's implemented. Many nations have legal provisions for medically assisted suicide for people who will surely die from some painful condition. At least that's how it starts. Legally, it always gets expanded.

In practice, if not legally, it gets expanded much faster.

Canada calls their system Medical Assistance in Dying or MAID. The speed with which it has been implemented and expanded is astounding. It's now being offered for mental problems such as PTSD and depression. In practice, it's being offered to folks just for being old.

Examples, often denied by the Canadian government, abound. From the Wiki:

In November 2022, an anonymous active Canadian Forces member has alleged he was offered MAID when seeking assistance regarding PTSD and suicidal thoughts,[69] raising concern about MAID being inappropriately offered. In December 2022, Paralympian and veteran Christine Gauthier testified that a Veterans Affairs Canada employee offered her MAID as an option when she is fighting for installing a wheelchair lift or ramp at her house.

Even a push to allow minors to be euthanized is ongoing. That effort, if successful, will likely have serious impacts on other areas of law.

Some folks have almost made it their life's work to oppose all this.
Personally, my initial reaction to allowing people to "die with dignity" was informed by the case of my maternal grandmother. My grandfather could not bear the thought of not having her around.

As a kid, I thought that was love. So I was in favor of medically assisted suicide.

As an adult, I've come to realize that my grandfather was a selfish bastard who had spent their time in this life abusing the hell out of her. He didn't know how to live if someone took away his emotional punching bag so he kept her on life support, in agony, for a year.

I'm no longer in favor of assisted suicide except in those obvious end-of-life scenarios. Unfortunately , implementation and maintenance of the necessary protective guardrails seems, in practice, to consistently fail.

IOW, where assisted suicide is implemented, it creeps into more and more treatment plans, places it should never tread.

I don't have a clue how to reconcile these facts into a system that won't force people to suffer nor kill off folks who, realistically, should never even contemplate that path.

What do y'all think?

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I think the way we handle things on hospice where large pain med doses eventually take care of business is the way to go. It’s difficult because not eveybody gets to that point without a painful right time of it. None of us is promised a painless death… sometimes life is exceedingly cruel, but that’s life. We probably should get used to barbarism anyways, the way our country and Western Civilization is headed, y’know?

 

[baboon]

For those of you who did not know my wife of 36 years ended her own life after a long illness with no doctors seeming to know what was wrong with her.

I honestly believe it was from getting vaccinated. She did so because her father insisted when she went to help her mother after a fall. She also had to wear a mask while there.

If assisted suicide was available to her I have no doubt that she would have chosen it. I also think that she believed her illness was from the vaccine.

I was taking a nap when she shot herself. Being awakened by the report I thought something fell on the roof. After I got up I smelled the burnt powder and dreaded what I found. I hate to say it but I am thankful that it worked out for her.

Together we have had to put down a few dogs. It was never easy on either of us. Finding one’s long term spouse face down in a puddle of blood is something I would never wish upon anyone. Assisted suicide would be hard to do, but one wouldn’t have worry about it being done wrong or the suffering a botched suicide.

It’s never easy for me to speak about it, but I’m not the first nor the last to deal with it.

 

[MTA]

Idk I think if someone wants to die, we should let them meet their death with grace instead of having them commit suicide in a manner that traumatizes everyone.

I believe the argument is that we would inevitably lead folks down this assisted suicide path who would have otherwise got the help that would have fixed them. Dont most countries who have this option leave it as a last resort? Maybe not canada who seems intent on recommending this for a scraped knee

 

[leVieux]

...wherever it's implemented. Many nations have legal provisions for medically assisted suicide for people who will surely die from some painful condition. At least that's how it starts. Legally, it always gets expanded.

In practice, if not legally, it gets expanded much faster.

Canada calls their system Medical Assistance in Dying or MAID. The speed with which it has been implemented and expanded is astounding. It's now being offered for mental problems such as PTSD and depression. In practice, it's being offered to folks just for being old.

Examples, often denied by the Canadian government, abound. From the Wiki:

Even a push to allow minors to be euthanized is ongoing. That effort, if successful, will likely have serious impacts on other areas of law.

Some folks have almost made it their life's work to oppose all this.
Personally, my initial reaction to allowing people to "die with dignity" was informed by the case of my maternal grandmother. My grandfather could not bear the thought of not having her around.

As a kid, I thought that was love. So I was in favor of medically assisted suicide.

As an adult, I've come to realize that my grandfather was a selfish bastard who had spent their time in this life abusing the hell out of her. He didn't know how to live if someone took away his emotional punching bag so he kept her on life support, in agony, for a year.

I'm no longer in favor of assisted suicide except in those obvious end-of-life scenarios. Unfortunately , implementation and maintenance of the necessary protective guardrails seems, in practice, to consistently fail.

IOW, where assisted suicide is implemented, it creeps into more and more treatment plans, places it should never tread.

I don't have a clue how to reconcile these facts into a system that won't force people to suffer nor kill off folks who, realistically, should never even contemplate that path.

What do y'all think?

<>

Remember that loss of reverence for Human Life began with the push for abortion on demand.

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[Iowashooter]

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Remember that loss of reverence for Human Life began with the push for abortion on demand.

<>

What he said ^^^

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

...wherever it's implemented. Many nations have legal provisions for medically assisted suicide for people who will surely die from some painful condition. At least that's how it starts. Legally, it always gets expanded.

In practice, if not legally, it gets expanded much faster.

Canada calls their system Medical Assistance in Dying or MAID. The speed with which it has been implemented and expanded is astounding. It's now being offered for mental problems such as PTSD and depression. In practice, it's being offered to folks just for being old.

Examples, often denied by the Canadian government, abound. From the Wiki:

Even a push to allow minors to be euthanized is ongoing. That effort, if successful, will likely have serious impacts on other areas of law.

Some folks have almost made it their life's work to oppose all this.
Personally, my initial reaction to allowing people to "die with dignity" was informed by the case of my maternal grandmother. My grandfather could not bear the thought of not having her around.

As a kid, I thought that was love. So I was in favor of medically assisted suicide.

As an adult, I've come to realize that my grandfather was a selfish bastard who had spent their time in this life abusing the hell out of her. He didn't know how to live if someone took away his emotional punching bag so he kept her on life support, in agony, for a year.

I'm no longer in favor of assisted suicide except in those obvious end-of-life scenarios. Unfortunately , implementation and maintenance of the necessary protective guardrails seems, in practice, to consistently fail.

IOW, where assisted suicide is implemented, it creeps into more and more treatment plans, places it should never tread.

I don't have a clue how to reconcile these facts into a system that won't force people to suffer nor kill off folks who, realistically, should never even contemplate that path.

What do y'all think?

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would suspect that the governments are pushing this as a "benefit" to the people with the actual agenda of reducing medical costs to save the government money for more "deserving" people - you know - illegals, politicians, etc.

 

[leVieux]

What he said ^^^

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This is a thin line. Once crossed, it is hard to control.

We Western Physicians observe ethics which don’t allow us to help someone intentionally kill themselves.

That said, there may be another thin line between adequate pain control for a cancer riddled patient, vs) their breathing stopping. Usually one provides narcotics to take orally, with caution to not overdose.

One should never aid anyone to overdose w/o their knowledge & full consent.

We must never allow anyone to decide for another person when to end life.

May GOD hep us all !

leVieux

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[Moonpie]

Sarah Palin was right.

 

[toddnjoyce]

If one starts from the position of first, do no harm, it’s hard for me to reconcile assisted suicide. By the same token, it’s also hard for me to accept indefinitely keeping someone in an induced coma or on life support.

What I do know is once the government gets involved in something, it’s bound to get fucked up, so let the law be silent on the topic, I guess.

 

[leVieux]

...wherever it's implemented. Many nations have legal provisions for medically assisted suicide for people who will surely die from some painful condition. At least that's how it starts. Legally, it always gets expanded.

In practice, if not legally, it gets expanded much faster.

Canada calls their system Medical Assistance in Dying or MAID. The speed with which it has been implemented and expanded is astounding. It's now being offered for mental problems such as PTSD and depression. In practice, it's being offered to folks just for being old.

Examples, often denied by the Canadian government, abound. From the Wiki:

Even a push to allow minors to be euthanized is ongoing. That effort, if successful, will likely have serious impacts on other areas of law.

Some folks have almost made it their life's work to oppose all this.
Personally, my initial reaction to allowing people to "die with dignity" was informed by the case of my maternal grandmother. My grandfather could not bear the thought of not having her around.

As a kid, I thought that was love. So I was in favor of medically assisted suicide.

As an adult, I've come to realize that my grandfather was a selfish bastard who had spent their time in this life abusing the hell out of her. He didn't know how to live if someone took away his emotional punching bag so he kept her on life support, in agony, for a year.

I'm no longer in favor of assisted suicide except in those obvious end-of-life scenarios. Unfortunately , implementation and maintenance of the necessary protective guardrails seems, in practice, to consistently fail.

IOW, where assisted suicide is implemented, it creeps into more and more treatment plans, places it should never tread.

I don't have a clue how to reconcile these facts into a system that won't force people to suffer nor kill off folks who, realistically, should never even contemplate that path.

What do y'all think?

<>


This should never be treated so casually.

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If one starts from the position of first, do no harm, it’s hard for me to reconcile assisted suicide. By the same token, it’s also hard for me to accept indefinitely keeping someone in an induced coma or on life support.

What I do know is once the government gets involved in something, it’s bound to get fucked up, so let the law be silent on the topic, I guess.

<>

’PRIMUM NON NOCERE’’

Or, ’’First do no harm’’ is widely misunderstood.

That is a GOAL to which we subscribe; not some inviolable rule.

One of the main reasons is that it is absolutely impossible to deal with the complex & dangerous issues we must face, including the frailty of life, the uncertainties of the psyche, and the difficulties of titrating often dangerous therapies, without ever having an untoward result.

So, we do the best we can. It is not humanly possible to never make a mistake, especially when dealing with complex & subjective issues.

leVieux

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[toddnjoyce]

…
Or, ’’First do no harm’’ is widely misunderstood.
…
So, we do the best we can. It is not humanly possible to never make a mistake, especially when dealing with complex & subjective issues.

leVieux

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In the context of this thread on medically assisted suicide, we’re not discussing making a mistake, we’re discussing a practitioner’s decision to kill someone.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

Whatever one chooses to do as long as they are capable of making that choice.

 

[benenglish]

Whatever one chooses to do as long as they are capable of making that choice.

There are people in Canada arguing that 12 year olds are capable of making that choice.

 

[alternative]

I have had many friends commit suicide over the last few years and I have no idea why they committed suicide. And all of the ways were violent too. So if not assisted than self induced. There may be some non-medical uses for fentanyl after all, at least a painless death. I still ask myself why did they commit suicide and have no answers. People that I was very close to.

 

[Vaquero]

There are people in Canada arguing that 12 year olds are capable of making that choice.

This is bad.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

There are people in Canada arguing that 12 year olds are capable of making that choice.

We have 12 year Olds making the choice to be transgendered. I really see no difference.

Sure it has to be regulated some how but those suffering or those that know it's coming should be able to pull their own plug. I know I will if need be.

 

[Vaquero]

I believe most of the Native Americans had it right.
Nature teaches things also.
I'm not cold hearted and I value and pray for every human soul.

Some are created to be angels in heaven.
Some are going to have to live life on earth.
Some are one and the same.

I wish it was black and white, better explained to us all.
It's not. It won't ever be.
God have mercy on us all.

 

[Havok1]

This isn’t just a foreign thing. It’s legal in several states as well. having seen plenty of situations that I would never want to be in, and especially for my family to have to deal with, I can see where some people are coming from when they want this, at least sometimes.

 

[leVieux]

In the context of this thread on medically assisted suicide, we’re not discussing making a mistake, we’re discussing a practitioner’s decision to kill someone.

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Understood; but we have become quite defensive over lay folks misunderstandings of ‘’Primum non Nocere’’, for very good reason.

I agree with you re the intentional taking of Human life; no matter the underlying ‘’intention’’.

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