Baton Rouge Shooting

[Maverick44]

I don't know how this thread will go on this forum (I think it will go civilly based on what I've seen here so far). On many others, it seems to either gravitate to all out cop bashing, or blindly trusting all law enforcement to do no wrong, and the thread goes to hell after that. Neither one of these arguments are true, or even reasonable in my opinion. Just like in anything else, there are good and bad people in all walks of life, and law enforcement is no different. Please keep that in mind.

Now then, for the shooting. Based on what you can see in the video, and the eye witness accounts, it does not look good for these officers at all. It appears they needlessly shot a man who was pinned down to the ground multiple times at point blank range. There are reports of him having a gun in his pocket, but that does not necessarily make him a criminal, which is something I'm sure we all as LTC holders would agree on.

The questions are going to be, was he actually reaching for the gun, and was lethal force required in this situation?

I will reserve an opinion on whether they are guilty of murder or not until more evidence is presented.

Here's the video. Please disregard that it's CNN. It wasn't my first choice, but the video in it's entirety is there. Viewer digression is advised.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/index.html

 

[Recoil45]

The video goes dark half way through so there is nothing to comment on.

They really don't need to find a weapon on a man that large who is resisting arrest to use deadly force.

 

[Moonpie]

 

[RACER X]

They need better martyrs

 

[robertc1024]

For a little more background here's a quote from the NYPost "[FONT=&amp]He was previously arrested for aggravated battery, criminal damage to property, unauthorized entry and domestic abuse battery, records show. In 2009, he was sentenced to five years in prison for marijuana possession and for carrying an illegal weapon with a controlled dangerous substance."

And he was a registered sex offender.
Not that any of that has any bearing on the situation at hand except that it's a fair assumption the police new him, and he shouldn't have had a gun. The five year sentence was a felony.


[/FONT]

 

[Maverick44]

The video goes dark half way through so there is nothing to comment on.

They really don't need to find a weapon on a man that large who is resisting arrest to use deadly force.

There's a difference between resisting arrest and trying to harm an officer (which warrants lethal force), and resisting arrest and trying to escape (which does not warrant lethal force by itself.) They had him pinned down pretty good. I'm having a difficult time seeing how lethal force was warranted in this situation.

There's also the issue of "did he actually do something wrong?" Was that arrest even lawful to begin with?

Like I said, we need more evidence to be presented before we can really cast an opinion.

 

[Maverick44]

For a little more background here's a quote from the NYPost "[FONT=&amp]He was previously arrested for aggravated battery, criminal damage to property, unauthorized entry and domestic abuse battery, records show. In 2009, he was sentenced to five years in prison for marijuana possession and for carrying an illegal weapon with a controlled dangerous substance."

And he was a registered sex offender.
Not that any of that has any bearing on the situation at hand except that it's a fair assumption the police new him, and he shouldn't have had a gun. The five year sentence was a felony.


[/FONT]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. It really doesn't have much bearing on whether the shooting was justifiable or not (as you said), but it sure helps the officers' cases.

 

[Recoil45]

Agree with some of that except having him pinned down pretty good. It looked like it was a major struggle and he was not under control at all.

 

[grasshopperglock]

The alternative view.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/graphic-cell-phone-video-showing-two-officers-execute/




As a note. It's common practice to release past history to demonize the dead.

 

[seeker_two]

Louisiana cops vs. convicted criminal.....

.....kinda hard to pick out the bad guy.

 

[Maverick44]

The alternative view.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/graphic-cell-phone-video-showing-two-officers-execute/




As a note. It's common practice to release past history to demonize the dead.

Annnd, back to the officers being in deep shit.

“He has a gun!” yelled one of the officers.
“You f*****g move, I swear to God,” says another officer just before firing two rounds into Sterling at point blank range. After the two rounds are fired, the person filming pans away in fear and we can hear at least three more shots.
When the officers fired, it appears that they have Sterling under control. The first officer to fire did so as he knelt down on Sterling’s left arm.

Abdul Muflahi, who witnessed the shooting from three feet away, said he saw officers reach into Sterling’s pocket after they killed him and pull out a gun. During the struggle, “His hand was nowhere (near) his pocket,” Muflahi said.

“They were really aggressive with him from the start,” Muflahi said about the officers.

 

[Davetex]

Louisiana cops vs. convicted criminal.....

.....kinda hard to pick out the bad guy.

Money Quote.

 

[45tex]

If I'm going to leave Texas, Louisiana is my first choice. I love Louisiana and have over many years interacted with many of their Police Officers and found them all to be as professional as any other state. Criminal law is a bit different there as well. When you are going to be arrested that is the time to stop your aggressive behavior. There is no duty for the Officer to step back and apologize, because the offender is black. Yet every race-baiter in the nation calls for investigation and then for riots. It's getting old.
From the view I saw, I have no idea if the deadly force was justified. That's why we have investigators. Now is not the time for stupidity, like the head race-baiter in the white house to get involved.

 

[peeps]

hmmmmm...despite all the CNN propaganda, the video shows him on his back and his arms outstretched to the sides (at least his left arm pinned, can't see right arm, which is the same side as the gun in his pocket). his left hand is open, and he is clearly tensed up....idk, it's hard to see how he was resisting enough to warrant the deadly force. definitely need more evidence.

in the CNN vid, they flashed a clip of one of the officers laying down, sorta in a weird/injured way...idk what's up with that?

 

[texas skeeter]

I've never put myself into a position where an officer had to chase, tackle, fight or pin me down. Maybe just maybe some of these Boneheads would think about going straight with the law. Maybe the guy was guilty of something and maybe not. But I don't think fighting or resisting against an armed officer is a smart thing to do period. No sympathy felt here....

 

[Saltyag2010]

Guys, don't pick a fight with armed police officers. You're not going to win and you might die. Just listen to them and if you're innocent a court will find you innocent. If too much force was used you may get a settlement. If you fight cops and then say, "I wasn't doing anything wrong and I got roughed up" you're an idiot.

BLM needed more examples of police brutality. They can make up whatever they want. In my mind most police are there to protect us and respond to threats to us. If you threaten them, you get what's coming to you.

 

[Dred]

K ... so ... I don't even know that the guy they executed was resisting.

I use the term executed because at that range the shooter could have easily chosen a "less lethal" shot which would have 100% certainty of stopping any threat. Let us imagine the guy was actually trying to reach into his pocket for the gun (with two police officers on top of him with weapons drawn) ... a shot to the bicep of the arm doing the reaching would neutralize the threat. The dead guy was executed.

Regarding my inability to determine that he was resisting ... imagine me with all 200 lbs of my mass with my knee pressing your hand into the concrete. Is trying to stop the pain in your hand by struggling to free it resisting - or, is it reflex? Do you remember the many ways to get your little brother to say "uncle" - did your little brother have a choice? What would your little brother have done if you couldn't hear him saying uncle?

K ... so ... my piece is said. I believe an investigation is warranted. I know what I think I saw, but I don't know any peripheral details that might justify the officer's decision.

 

[Mungle]

the shooter could have easily chosen a "less lethal" shot.

I don't think police really ever shoot to wound - that's what the Tazer is for. If they have drawn their weapon, it is supposed to be because the use of deadly force is warranted.

 

[Maverick44]

Well, they tazed him and then shot him. I guess they though both were warranted.

The more I learn about this, the more I think this was not a justified killing.

 

[zincwarrior]

They really don't need to find a weapon on a man that large who is resisting arrest to use deadly force.

Really? Can you quote the actual Texas statute that would support your statement?